Is this possible?
| Author | Topic: Is this possible? |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Sunday, March 5 2006 13:28
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In my arrogance, I decided to see if it was possible to play G3 without killing anything. That is, without anything you control killing any foe. As a guardian. I know I'm doomed, but putting that aside, is it physically possible? I'm good so far except for the punching of two worms at the ruined school. Is there any area that you have to cross that requires killing something? -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1418
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written Sunday, March 5 2006 15:26
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I don't think it's possible to get off of Gull Island without killing something. The lock to the boat can't be picked, so you'll have to kill Khyryk or the gazer that's guarding Agatha. (unless you manage to use Dominate to make other critters do the killing for you) [Edit]: I was wrong. There's a captured drayk in Khyryk's Tower that'll kill him for you. [ Thursday, March 09, 2006 16:45: Message edited by: Publicly Displayed Name: ] -------------------- Geneforge 2 Editor Posts: 406 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Sunday, March 5 2006 18:58
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Very interesting idea. SW games don't really lend themselves to pacifism, but I wonder what length you could take this to. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Sunday, March 5 2006 20:14
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Avernum games would probably be impossible, since so many requests require someone to die. One of the major quest in A1 is to kill Emperor Hawthorne and a major quest in A2 is to kill Garzhad, after all. Geneforge games have a slightly better chance, since leadership enables you to talk your way out of things. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Sunday, March 5 2006 21:16
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An Agent using Terror, Dominate, and possibly Mass Madness could probably do it. Terror is supremely powerful. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Monday, March 6 2006 03:00
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Drawback: It's hard to get experience this way. I need 1 more level to get enough points in Leadership to talk the Creator to death, but I don't think I can get enough from the two quests I have left. Is there any renewable way to get experience wthout killing? -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Monday, March 6 2006 05:19
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quote:Yes. The last area, for example. -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Tuesday, March 7 2006 13:37
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Update: Lankan has been augmented, and Diawatha is seriously annoyed. Stupid Shaper (He's KILLING THE ROGUES! Your ENEMIES! HELLO!). Still with my original weaponless, creationless Guardian. I made a Thahd to serve as meat shield once, but he didn't actually block anything. Having godly Leadership is glorious fun. I abused poor Norell to no end :P . So, is this mission physically possible, or no? Dominate isn't likely. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1418
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 18:04
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Found out something helpful if you're still having exp trouble and want to start over. A Dominated NPC that kills an enemy will give you exp for the kill. [Edit]: Engrish'd! [ Wednesday, March 08, 2006 18:10: Message edited by: Publicly Displayed Name: ] -------------------- Geneforge 2 Editor Posts: 406 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Thursday, March 9 2006 12:40
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You don't need to kill anyone. You do need to make death happen, but that's a different matter. I've done it as a solo rebel Agent. There were some difficult bits, but it's all do-able. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 13:36
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Sorry to revive the topic, but I think I'm stuck. In Creator's Hall, there's a door that is locked by a magical force. I assume that you have to kill the drayk nearby to open it. Did Khoth actually manage the task of luring it out into the open and dominating enough glahhks to kill it? Or is there something I'm not seeing? -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1418
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 16:45
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Looks like you need to get the General to mobilize the Shaper army in order for the door to open. [Edit]: Ah, I see the door you're talking about. That one opens only when the drayk is killed, but if you enter from the east, that door should only require the army mobilization. [ Wednesday, March 15, 2006 16:59: Message edited by: Publicly Displayed Name: ] -------------------- Geneforge 2 Editor Posts: 406 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 01:52
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I think it would be possible to do that in Geneforge 3 (having other creatures kill enemies when really necessary), but I think you at least need to attack Barzahl yourself in Gf2 if you want to be a Taker. Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 01:57
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Ah, thanks. Looks like I'll be making artilas and plowing them into mines for a while. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Saturday, March 18 2006 15:50
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Did it! A solo rebel Agent (named The Hypnotist after the hypnotic properties of 15 leadership) has made it through G3 without killing a thing. Without canisters. I lied about alliegance to Akhari Blaze and was going to destroy both Rahul and him (by setting the control panels against him after killing Rahul) but realized that was not happening and accepted the Geneforge as necessary. It's kind of ironic when you think about it. A pacifist just destroyed an entire order of people. Hard parts: Chadwick Prison (I turned of the power and set off the alarm so that the Khrenli might escape), getting that stupid drayk to follow me correctly in Khyryk's tower, sneaking around Dhonal's Keep after attacking Rahul, and not getting killed by warriors while watching the drakon kill Rahul. A thoroughly enjoyable experience, but I have one logic question. Akhari said that they dared not use the Geneforge while Rahul was alive, but why? Drixiss, a single, mentally broken drakon, defeated Anjali and Rahul (4 times) and quite a few of his best soldiers with hardly any help from me. Rahul would have to fight at least 10-15 of such drakons, not to mention the servile armies and the drayks. Then he would have to kill Litalia, Hoge, Mooralas, and an Ur-Akhari.... -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, March 18 2006 22:46
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*applause* That's quite an accomplishment. Nice work! -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Sunday, March 19 2006 01:11
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quote:Using the GF will turn drakon Ur-Drakon, right? So, killing Rahul will demoralize the soldier and the Ur-drakon gives the final blow. And remember that Rahul is a strategy-genius: maybe, if he rest alive, he can manage to sent a special squad to destroy the GF. Instead, if he die, the aura of power and authority of the Shapers will be broken: after that panic, rebellions, fear, blood and destruction will spread and no-one can't stop it. EDIT: Sorry for grama, I'm in hurry. :rolleyes: [ Sunday, March 19, 2006 01:12: Message edited by: MagmaDragoon ] -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Sunday, March 19 2006 06:45
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The drama is really worse than the grama. :P -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Sunday, March 19 2006 14:23
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What's so great about Rahul, if he's far from indestructible in melee? This is another one of the aspects of Shaper magic I think Jeff might clarify. It is implied at several points in the game, though rather vaguely, that Rahul can control sizable forces of creations from a great distance. It is also implied in several places that there are actually a great many more creations around, on both sides, than you ever see as a player. So I agree that it is probably Rahul's skill as a general commanding offstage armies that constitutes his main power. If Rahul knew that an operational Geneforge was cranking out Ur-Drakons, he might abandon Dhonal's Isle in favor of an assault on Spears with all his forces, which might well succeed. It is probably this that Akhari Blaze fears. It is also asserted by Shapers in a few places -- I am thinking of an example in G2 -- that even the most rebellious creations have deep instincts to obey sufficiently strong-willed Shapers. There is a surprising hint near the end of G3 that this might indeed be true. So I'm also imagining that Akhari Blaze might fear that Rahul could use his advanced Shaper powers to subvert the first Ur-Drakons, even from a distance. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
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written Thursday, March 23 2006 19:48
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How insightful! You have to admit that the Drakons have damned cowardly methods. In both games they existed, they hide and develop, taking no chances--they want to be really really sure they can win. Besides, if you consider population, there have got to be 20-30 Shaper NPC's on Dhonal's Isle alone and probably 10 tough mages or warriors. Then the overwhelmingly large army? I'm in the middle of a GF3 playthrough and I just passed through the Main Army Camp. I'd say there are about 30 Elite Soliders and 30 Fighters. This force, oh my crap. 6 Fighters could take out an Ur-Drakon with no loss of life (my guess). Creations: Erika says she commands 15 Glaahks and Alphas, up to 2 miles away. So maybe 200 Creations in the whole Dhonal's Island Shaper army. But how many Drakons are there? Can't be more than 10 in the whole game ... Drayks and Cryodrayks, maybe 40-50 including those hatchlings and the weaker, rogue ones. The serviles, there are countless rebels. Not counting the scared ones with 27 HP, I'd say there are about 100 that the PC actually runs into. Throw in their handful of tough rebel Shapers and some of their Creations. So just for a fictional helluvit, throwing them all into a single zone would result in a massive Shaper win. Wouldn't it just kick Vlish if your Shaper authority can overcome NPC's? It's suggested (largely in GF) that regardless of whether something is a Creation or not, Shaper aura effects them. It's just that Creations were made naturally more susceptible. Akhari, you're coming with me. -------------------- One of these words is mispelled. Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Friday, March 24 2006 02:17
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The forces really can't be that huge. Remember, all of that was unable to destroy a damaged Creator, and then lost the front lines when it was repaired. 6 fighters would not be able to take down an Ur-Drakon. 6 Elite Warriors, maybe, but only if they had him against a wall and kept stunning him. Drixiss killed around 15 Elites in the process of killing Rahul. Drixiss isn't even Ur. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Friday, March 24 2006 07:50
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Another thing to the Main Army: I never allow them attack when I finished GF3 (I wanted all the EXP for me!). I was a little hard, but not so much. So I think that the Army isn't so powerful. Well, both Akari Blaze wasn't so powerful. In fact, he was pretty weak in my opinion. Rahul (I tried to kill him) was more powerful. [ Friday, March 24, 2006 07:52: Message edited by: MagmaDragoon ] -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
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written Friday, March 24 2006 18:46
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Granted, my Human vs. Drakon ratio was off by a lot. Also, in battle (by which I mean a massive attack as described above) the Drakons' projectile attacks would cut down groups regular soliders before they could even get close; all they have for distance are thorn batons. What it comes down to in full-scale war is this: the Shaper army consists of a few dozen powerful, multi-talented Shapers supporting hundreds of very weak (relative to the Drakons) soldiers limited to melee swarming. Mages would probably play a minimal role, but hundreds of creations could provide a buffer and maybe even break up the rebel front lines. The Rebel Army has a few dozen Drakons (from what I can tell), vicious in ranged and close combat. Then there are the Rebel Shapers, I guess just Litalia and Hoge? Those groups far outdo the NPC Shapers, for what it's worth. A bunch of Drayks (also good at a distance) and countless Serviles would make up the main army. If the Drakons came as a cavalry and penetrated the Shaper line (in groups of 3-4), they might be able to take out the Shapers in charge and the soldiers would be quickly cut down without the healing reinforcements. As long as the Drakons are not isolated, they are indestructible for the purpose of a quick battle. The Shapers would have to split their Creations to flank the Rebel army. Given that distraction, the opportunity to break the Rebel line would present itself. Shaper dazing/charming would also work wonders in huge group combat. Given that the Shapers are so defensive and the Rebels are always taking action, a massive Drakon strike at Dhonal's keep from the coast would be a veritable blitzkrieg; I mean, if one apprentice (who, granted, becomes the most powerful character) can slaughter a military city like Dhonal's Keep -- and many of us have done it -- so can a pack of augmented, berserk dinosaurs. I feel like the Lord Rahul himself. Almost at the point of drawing out battle maps here. -------------------- One of these words is mispelled. Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00 |