Skill Point Abstinence
| Author | Topic: Skill Point Abstinence |
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Apprentice
Member # 6092
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written Saturday, July 9 2005 17:23
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For people who like a challenge: Try playing the game on Torment as a guardian, and don't use any of your skill points. Ever. Not the first 15, not the others as you level up. To my surprise, I was able to make it all the way through the demo without using any skill points. My guardian was level 13 at the end, with 75 unused skill points. I cleared all of the areas and accomplished almost all of the quests along the way. The biggest difficulty is the lack of Mechanics (level 3 by default for a guardian). You can't disarm mines, and you have to use lots of living tools to open doors, cabinets, etc. Working your way through an area like the Minefield Woods becomes downright silly--getting close enough to set off a mine, running around a corner to escape the blast, and healing yourself when you're not fast enough. No experience points for this thick-headed approach, but eventually you'll be able to walk through the area. There aren't enough living tools to let you into every room and cabinet; you've got to choose which ones are most worthwhile. It took me 26 tools to get into the basement under San Ru, and another 2 to open the door into the shaping chamber. I did manage to eliminate the baddies in the shaping chamber (using the Wand of the Inferno) as well as the rogue thahd, but I had no living tools left to open the doors for the various goodies. (I couldn't open the doors to disarm the mines, either, but I just waded through them with the benefit of Armor Potion and repeated healings.) Since a guardian has no magic skills at the beginning (except healing), it does no good to buy spells until you find the Carnelian Gloves (Eastern Road) or the Artila Skin Tunic (Kentia South Gate). In fact, the only spells I ever used were Minor Heal and Daze. Daze was pitifully weak with only level 1 Mental Magic (from the Carnelian Gloves), but it was better than nothing when I was outnumbered. I accepted any help that was offered along the way--most notably from Alwan and Greta. Those characters have sometimes been maligned on this forum, but like the Daze spell, they're certainly better than nothing when you're playing under these constraints. I doubt you could finish the demo without them (though, as I said, I was surprised to make it through at all--so who knows?). And for the record, I did apply their skill points as they earned them; Alwan ended up at level 11, and Greta at level 10. I played the entire demo with my Luck at level 0. (I forgot to clear out the Sea Caves until near the end, and even then I somehow overlooked the lucky charm in the artila's nest.) Still, I felt pretty lucky on a few occasions. Most notably, some creature dropped a Girdle of Might (I think it was a Vlish in the Roamer Marsh, though I'm not sure). It's the most valuable item I've seen in the demo, and this was the only time I've seen it. I also picked up a Vlish Tentacle (which I hadn't seen before) and a Roamer Fang (which I had seen only once or twice). It would be interesting to see how far you could go without using skill points in the full game. I haven't bought Geneforge 3 yet because I'm having way too much fun with the demo; I need to put it away and get some work done. But I bought and enjoyed Geneforge 2, and I'm sure I'll get this version soon. Posts: 4 | Registered: Saturday, July 9 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5785
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 01:11
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That's intresting. I would have thought that doing such would be near impossible..But.. quote:..You could have saved those tools and just go to pick up the key in the Ambush Cave, if you played outside the demo. -------------------- "..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days." Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6092
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 11:43
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quote:Thanks. I recall Norrell (I think) mentioning that someone with a key went on an ill-fated expedition to the west. But even though this was a fun experiment, I'm not sure I'd start over and repeat it with the full game just to save the living tools--this approach isn't exactly the fast track to Shaper fame and fortune. [ Sunday, July 10, 2005 11:46: Message edited by: Trina ] Posts: 4 | Registered: Saturday, July 9 2005 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 12:40
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Homepage
But it is the fast track to community fame. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 14:21
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Also when you destroy the spawners he gives you both that key and another key that opens many doors down there. -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5785
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 14:39
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And with a Leadership of 7 or higher you can order the Shaper's second man in charge to give you the key. -------------------- "..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days." Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 15:09
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But without using skill points you can't get that without a bunch of items from much later in the game. And if he wants to save the maximum living tools it is better to go back with the extra key from destroying the spawners (and possibly return to certain doors later in the game with the infiltrator equipment, all of which but the ring and charm can be found by the end of dhonal's island). Also besides the infiltrator's equipment I think there is some shield that gives +leadership but I forget the location. (and tinker's bauble and gloves for mechanics). [ Sunday, July 10, 2005 15:12: Message edited by: Walter ] -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5437
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 16:26
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Aside from Living Tools being in short supply, not having enough leadership (Guardian starts with two) becomes a problem when you get to South End. The skill is too low to convince people to give you things for free, so if you want to read Crider's Thahd book you have to pay 200 coins. Sellable items are plentiful, but it takes many trips back to South End with such low strength. As far as combat goes it's not too difficult early on, especially with Alwan or Greta along. Getting through the mine field is indeed an interesting process, as once in a while you just can't get away fast enough. It seems doable to get through the game like this while playing on torment, but the lack of leadership will cause a decent amount to be missed, at least early on. I stopped at Dhonal's Island, and haven't had too much trouble with the combat; the Creator and Spawners are a bit difficult. [ Sunday, July 10, 2005 16:29: Message edited by: Dolphin. ] Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 17:16
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Also what creations were you using? With a guardian that means only fyoras and thahds at first, though with the books on dhonals island, a canister of fire shaping on the dhonal docks, the bejeweled bracelet from the testing grounds, and that necklace from the bulwark inn that makes a possible 4 fire shaping, and 5 in battle and magic. Unfortunately though it would probably be quite a while before you could complete the trials for the bejeweled bracelet. -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5437
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 17:26
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Essence is hard to come by without investing in Intelligence, so making creations (especially early on) isn't very helpful. Alwan and/or Greta make things much easier since they leave the little essence you have available for healing. Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 17:54
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True, but with very little shaping skills creations will never be useful unless you make them at the start, so making a fyora at the very beginning may be advisable. (though you don't have enough essence to give it 2 points in intelligence until you are level 2). -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5437
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 18:05
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When I got to South End I was at level four, and had 13 points of essence. To make a Fyora costs a base of eight; two points in Intelligence costs three more in essence (new total is 11). This would leave me with only two points in essence to spare; assuming I don't give them to the Fyora. Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 19:11
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Yes, it may make things difficult early on, but it may be worth it later to have it around later when you again have enough essence to cast a few cures. -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Sunday, July 10 2005 20:30
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Just thought of some other interesting challenges to try: 1. Play as a shaper but use no creations 2. Play as an agent but cast no spells other than healing craft ones. 3. Wear no equipment and carry no charms 4. Do not use any canisters, train at any trainers, or use or read anything else that otherwise increases skills other than using skill points. 5. Never directly damage an enemy with your character or creations: have all damage done by alwan, greta, friendly npcs, or dominated opponents. 6. Never buy anything or sell anything to an npc storekeeper. 7. Play as a shaper and once it first becomes possible never use any creations (even alwan or greta) except for pyroroamers. 8. Once you find the first one, never damage any enemy with anything but steel spines enhancements on armor unless the enemy type will never use mellee attacks. 9. Never kill any enemies that you are not absolutely required to to complete a quest. 10. Play through the entire game without ever reloading a game save or dying once. 11. Never report completion of a quest for a reward unless required for the main plotline. 12. Play through the game without investing anything in mechanics and never open a door that you need living tools or the unlock spell to do so (you would not be able to clear all areas but it may still be possible to win the game). 13. Play as a shaper and never make anything but thaads, artila, and fyora, and whenever one of them levels up reabsorb it so you can't have them higher level than your skills make them at creation. 14. only damage enemies with mellee attacks, but never equip a weapon other than the first dagger you find on starting the game. -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6092
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written Monday, July 11 2005 05:22
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quote:I didn't use any creations because I had so little essence. As you suggest, though, creating a fyora early in the game probably would help later on. And I ended up with plenty of essence pods, so I could have used more of them if most of my essence had been invested in a creation. I like your suggestions for other challenges, especially number 1 (play as a shaper with no creations) and number 9 (don't kill any enemies unless necessary). More than once I've tried to limit the mayhem by focusing on leadership and stealth, though never with the single-minded devotion I applied to playing without skill points. Posts: 4 | Registered: Saturday, July 9 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Monday, July 11 2005 06:08
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I'm currently doing number 10 on the list - I haven't died yet, neither have I saved, except for Autosave. I have loaded Autosave, but only when turning my computer on at half past three (pm). I would leave it on all day, but my mum would scream and wave the electricity bill at me, and my brother would probably mess it up. Never trust children... -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5935
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written Monday, July 11 2005 09:22
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When you play these challenges on torment level, do you have to restart often? I've always been curous about that, as I have to restart all the dog-gone time... Posts: 69 | Registered: Friday, June 10 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Monday, July 11 2005 10:08
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quote:I didn't mean never save when you stop playing for a while, I meant if you save immediately quit and load that when you start playing again and never load that save again. -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |