Betatesters wanted for BetterEditor
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| Author | Topic: Betatesters wanted for BetterEditor |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Friday, June 18 2004 03:05
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I've hacked about with the BoA editor source, and I've made something that I at least think is an improvement. The main additions are tools for drawing walls much more easily, and there are a few other minor things. Get it here. Source is here. This is for MacOS X only. It should be possible to compile it for OS 9. PC users can't. It's only tested on my computer (10.3). -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2711
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written Friday, June 18 2004 05:17
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Just a thought, will "bettereditor" scenarios work on BOA? Posts: 126 | Registered: Wednesday, February 26 2003 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Friday, June 18 2004 05:48
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If they didn't, it wouldn't be a better editor, would it? Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4533
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written Friday, June 18 2004 06:54
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Will there be a release for PC? If not I guess I'll be using my girlfriends Mac a bit more. Posts: 37 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Friday, June 18 2004 07:17
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I can't seem to work out how either Draw Walls or Rectangle Wall work. At all. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 760
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written Friday, June 18 2004 07:41
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quote:what's the use of having bettereditor if you couldn't play the scenarios made with it:rolleyes: -------------------- "The Darkness Shall Return!" Posts: 642 | Registered: Saturday, March 16 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4000
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written Friday, June 18 2004 08:44
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quote:I believe C++ files are cross platform and can be compiled under Windows...and the bettereditor has the source made with C++ files. -------------------- ♫ The truth is screaming BIG ♫ ♫ A light so bright ♫ ♫ Whether day or night ♫ ♫ It can't be hid ♫ § realitycorp@gmail.com § ►► Chance is back online! ◄◄ Posts: 245 | Registered: Tuesday, February 17 2004 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Friday, June 18 2004 11:53
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Yes, scenarios still work. There's more to running it on a PC than just compiling it. There are all the libraries for the Mac interface and so on. To make it work on a PC, you'd need the PC source code and reasonable knowledge of how to merge it all. Wall tools - you need to have things set to editing terrain (not floors or heights). Select a walltype (any walltype). For the rectangle, click on a location for top left and for bottom right. Each square is notionally divided into four, and where in the square you click determines whether the walls run along the top or bottom of the square. For the walldrawing, select either a plain wall terrain type, or a door or whatever (any direction) to draw a door. The tool then works like the normal pencil, except that you have to click near the edges of the square to make a wall appear or disappear in that edge. (and not too close to the corner) -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4202
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written Thursday, June 24 2004 07:18
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Rectangle wall and get (x,y) location only work in zoomed out mode. Wall drawing is a good idea, but I currently can't get it to do what I want reliably. It's always putting walls in the wrong direction, not in the path I drag it. It might help if it knew that two walls facing each other, essentially in the same place but on different squares, wasn't a good thing to make. I have no idea how it's implemented, though, so I don't know what you can do with it. It also acts very strangely in zoomed out mode. Other tools don't work properly. The spraycan and paintbrush tools, for example, I used one time. Next time I clicked, nothing happened except it went back to the normal drawing cursor. But nothing worked until I selected another tool or terrain to draw. -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Thursday, June 24 2004 07:35
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Thanks for the feedback. I won't be able to hack at it until Monday, but a few comments: I'm surprised at the rectangle and x,y only working in zoomed-out mode. Pretty much all my testing of them was in zoomed-in mode. The way the wall-drawing tool (should) works, is that each square is divided into nine sections: (Actually, these are 1/4, 1/2, 1/4 thickness, rather than 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. I may change that) A click in an O on the diagram should do nothing, and a click in one of the directions should try to add a wall there. Dragging is basically a process of hitting the direction squares you want while avoiding the ones you don't want. At least, it should be. In zoomed-out mode it theoretically works the same, except that the divisions are too small to click in easily. I'll experiment with different ways of dividing the square and try to pick something that works better. As for the paintbrush and so on, I thought I'd squashed that bug, but I obviously haven't. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4202
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written Thursday, June 24 2004 08:33
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Ah, now it makes sense to me. You should describe it in more detail in the readme. Testing normal editor features, they didn't work! I couldn't change the floor, terrain except for walls, or height the normal way. Special tools like the paintbrush can change them, though. On the subject of the rectangle wall, I couldn't get some of the other rectangle tools to work at all. Also, the wall-drawing tool seemed to be active any time a wall had been selected, even after switching to height or floor mode. ************** I have been working on making a version of the editor. So far I have turned the zoomed-in view into a "middle zoom" view that lets you edit an 18x18 area. I'm going to have to start over anyway to let the user have normal zoomed in view. I was wondering whether you had any additional plans for BetterEditor or whether I can use it as a starting point for my version once it's not so buggy? Other features I am planning on are: A way to change number of outdoor sectorsan "eyedropper" tool to select a type of floor or terrain you have already placedIf I'm feeling really ambitious and can figure out how to do it, a 3D view like in the game, that can be edited. I found a function in the editor code that lets you check line of sight, so I could even have a mode where you can only "see" from the square you're centered on, as a way to test how it would really look in the game. [ Thursday, June 24, 2004 08:55: Message edited by: Isaac ] -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
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written Friday, June 25 2004 09:17
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If you make that 3D editor thing then I will... um... do something really nice for you. Like give you a dime or something. That would be unbelievably awesome and useful (not the dime, the 3D editor.) -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 154
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written Sunday, June 27 2004 08:11
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I seriously doubt Khoth has the time to completely recode the BoA engine rendering system. -------------------- Apparently still annoying. Posts: 612 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4202
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written Sunday, June 27 2004 09:06
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quote:Khoth? Who's that? It's certainly not me. In fact, I have made a good deal of progress making a 3D editor. I have plenty of time, because it's my summer vacation. And, I like coding. :) -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, June 27 2004 14:41
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If that was a genuine question, Khoth is the person who made the BetterEditor, member #67. If you manage to make a 3D editor (or even just a Preview command), I think virtually all designers will be deeply in debt to you for all eternity. [ Sunday, June 27, 2004 14:41: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4202
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written Monday, June 28 2004 01:50
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quote:And since I'm sometimes a designer, I'll be deeply in debt to myself. :) Yet another motivating force. :) -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, June 28 2004 05:35
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How unusual. Topics like this usually get killed before they make it this far. Maybe Jeff just doesn't care anymore whether people hack and recompile his editors. Not that it's always a bad thing (like in this case) -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
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written Monday, June 28 2004 07:03
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The editor is open source. Hacking into it is encouraged. -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Monday, June 28 2004 09:32
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I do have plans to for it. You are also welcome to use it as a base when it's less buggy. It seems I badly screwed something up somewhere, so I'll need to dig about and fix it. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 286
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written Monday, June 28 2004 23:44
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You know, sometimes I think it might even be better to recode the entire thing from scratch in something properly cross-platform. Python would work well; then you could even stick a fully-fledged script/macro thing into the editor itself. (The eval function rules. :) ) Of course, that would be way too much work. Notice that I said "better", not "easier". :P (Erm... at first I tried to type e.v.a.l.(.), without the periods, and UBB told me that the "eval" HTML tag wasn't allowed. What the? :eek: ) -------------------- Z: "I just feel so insignificant." Psych: "You ARE. You're an ANT." --Antz Posts: 104 | Registered: Saturday, November 17 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4202
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written Tuesday, June 29 2004 00:22
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quote: -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 154
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written Tuesday, June 29 2004 06:32
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quote:Isaac, he wasn't trying to use HTML. Methinks it to do with the eval...function of PHP, but filtering it out is rather stupid, considering if the board actually executed code in members posts, this board would have more security holes than could be humanely possible. Also, Pythons speed is slower than C++. The BoA editor is already slow and clunky enough. [ Tuesday, June 29, 2004 06:33: Message edited by: Grey-Eyed Stranger ] -------------------- Apparently still annoying. Posts: 612 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, June 29 2004 09:40
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Python isn't so much slower than C++ that it would count as a reason against making the editor with it. In fact, a complete rewrite would probably be faster, because it wouldn't have much of the boneheadedness that the current one has. However, it would be a major project and probably not worth the trouble. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 286
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written Wednesday, June 30 2004 00:13
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quote:Isaac, he wasn't trying to use HTML. Methinks it to do with the eval...function of PHP, but filtering it out is rather stupid, considering if the board actually executed code in members posts, this board would have more security holes than could be humanely possible.[/b][/QUOTE] Yeah, that's probably it. Khoth is right about the speed difference, though; you really don't notice any slowness at all unless you're doing lots of number-crunching, which the editor doesn't need to do. Besides, a lot of the clunkiness I've noticed in the BOA editor has more to do with the interface and the fact that it has a slight delay every time it plays a sound (from clicking buttons and stuff) than actual execution speed. Yeah, it would be a pretty major project, but I can dream can't I? :D And in the meantime, I could make a script editor or something... hey, that's actually a pretty good idea. Now to learn wxPython, properly this time! :cool: -------------------- Z: "I just feel so insignificant." Psych: "You ARE. You're an ANT." --Antz Posts: 104 | Registered: Saturday, November 17 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4637
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written Wednesday, June 30 2004 02:29
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It would be nice if you could post some screenshots for curious PC users. ;) -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
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