The nephilim language

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Author	Topic: The nephilim language
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, January 7 2006 02:09 Profile Homepage #25 quote: Originally written by Thralni, Nephil translators & co.: of how much letters does the Slith alphabet consist, and how long did you take to make it? Er, let's see. There's 27 letters (counting digraphs, like "kh" and "th"), or 32 if you count the long vowels separate from the short vowels. That's in Classical Slith — it simplifies somewhat in Modern Slith and a lot in Barbaric Slith. It only took me an hour or two to do Classical Slith phonology, because I basically knew what I wanted right away. quote: How did you describe how to pronounce the letters anyway. with signs or with words in which that same pronounciation also occurs? Well, I haven't actually written down a description anywhere. I describe it to myself in terms of standard phonological terminology (see the link to the Wikipedia IPA page earlier). quote: am I getting irritating already with all these question? No. :P quote: Suposse the nephilim in Avernum still did speak a sort of ancient nephilian, would there be many changes in the grammar also, or just vocabulary and maybe pronounciation? i think not. I agree. There'd be very little change in forty years. Remember that Shakespeare wrote in Early Modern English four hundred years ago, so you need at least that amount of time to get a dialect that sounds different enough that people would have to struggle to understand each other. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Saturday, January 7 2006 02:17 Profile Homepage #26 And now some final questions: How can I make accents on non-vowels? I have tried all kinds of things, but it can't be done in microsoft word, i think. Do you know of any way of doing that? is there anything know of the nephil history? Something about how long they actually exist for example. there could have been changes in grammar and the lot, also before they were sent to Avernum. I must say its really hard to come up with words that seem to be correct by nepil standards. therefor, I ask you, is it alright if I look at thr Slith alphabet? I'm veryt curious to how it is contructed. I t probably won't help me much with the Nephilian, but just out of curiosity: may I see the Slith alphabet? that was all for now. thanks kelandon and the rest who already helped me. i'm very grateful. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Saturday, January 7 2006 02:22 Profile Homepage #27 quote: Originally written by Thralni, Nephil translators & co.: And now some final questions: How can I make accents on non-vowels? I have tried all kinds of things, but it can't be done in microsoft word, i think. Do you know of any way of doing that? Well, since most accented non-vowels are non-ASCII characters, the first thing you need is a font that supports them. After that you should be able to use your word processor's Insert Characters option to put them in. They probably won't display properly in a post on these forums anyway, though. Sorry. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, January 7 2006 02:26 Profile Homepage #28 UBB does not support Unicode input, sadly. I'd assume that BoA doesn't, either, although I don't know its limitations; I'd guess that it can properly display anything that can be brought up using option keys on a standard U.S. keyboard, which does not include diacritical marks over anything other than vowels. In other words, you're best off using digraphs (two letters to represent one sound) rather than diacriticals (marks above the letter). The Classical Slith alphabet is as follows: Vowels: a: as in father e: as in bet i: like the ee in beet — more or less a Spanish I o: American no — more or less a Spanish O u: French lûne or German ü Long forms of the vowels indicated either by double vowles (aa) or a macron (or whatever's available — â). Stops: k: as in kid g: as in get t: as in today d: as in dog p: as in pin b: as in boy Liquids/nasals: l: as in let r: as in red m: as in met n: as in net rh: uvular trill, like some French or German R's Fricatives: f: as in fan v: as in van s: as in song z: as in zoo kh: ch in properly pronounced Chanukah or in Scottish loch gh: voiced version of kh th: as in thing dh: like th in then sh: as in should zh: like the s in measure or z in azure h: as in happy [ Saturday, January 07, 2006 02:46: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Saturday, January 7 2006 03:32 Profile Homepage #29 Thanks very much. it afterall did help me a bit. now I have a much better idea of how to make certain tones and letters clear. thanks! is there somebody who would want to eventually see the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary on my site? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, January 7 2006 03:40 Profile Homepage #30 I suppose I'd be curious. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Saturday, January 7 2006 12:21 Profile Homepage #31 More nitpicks! Why would nephilim use a different number system and have no zero because of their number of digits? Not all humans cultures on Earth used base 10, and it's not as though one of the missing fingers could be the zero finger. Human language has nothing to do with the sounds made by other primates to express feelings. I doubt nephil language would be equivalent to other cats' sounds. In fact, even purring could change from an expression of happiness (or whatever it is) to just another sound for communication. If that's true and vocal chords can work even when the larynx is doing what it does to purr, almost all nephil speech could be modified by purrs. (R or R+purr, F or F+purr, and so on). Since nephilim produce warrios aplenty and no mention is made of any lack of nephil stamina, I think it's fair to say that they evolved out of the cheetah model of energy bursts and into the slow and steady one. —Alorael, who would like to know if nephilim from all over the Empire were banished to Avernum and, if so, if they all spoke exactly the same language before coming down. If they didn't, the language of Avernum could become a pidgin of all the pure nephil languages or dialects from the surface. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, January 7 2006 12:57 Profile Homepage #32 quote: Originally written by Arcane Methodological Square: Why would nephilim use a different number system and have no zero because of their number of digits? Not all humans cultures on Earth used base 10, and it's not as though one of the missing fingers could be the zero finger. Eh, while a few cultures here and there used something other than a base 10 system (including, for the barefoot, a base 20 system), base 10 is overwhelmingly dominant throughout most of the world. It's not just coincidence. I mean, that doesn't make it mandatory that nephils have a system based on the number of their fingers, but it does make it a lot more likely. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Tom Warrior Member # 497	written Saturday, January 7 2006 13:39 Profile #33 Zero as a concept is one thing, but zero as a number is quite another. The earliest cultures did not use zero as a number until they needed advanced maths (such as trigonometry) for things like architecture, at which the Nephilim have never been very good. In fact, the only real castle we've seen was built with the assistance of a human mage; all the other dungeons look to be holes with haphazard partitions. The rationale for a lack of zero was something to the effect of, 'If there's nothing there, why try to count it?' Maybe the shamans would need a zero for their magical formulæ, but given the rather low power and complexity of their magic, it doesn't look like it. Sliths, what with their own history of being decent architects in the past, might well have lost a zero as they reverted to barbarism. It's actually rather funny, just how influential the power of nothing can be. -------------------- Evil comes in many forms. I am but one of them. Posts: 116 \| Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Saturday, January 7 2006 14:09 Profile Homepage #34 quote: Originally written by Thuryl: quote: Originally written by Thralni, Nephil translators & co.: And now some final questions: How can I make accents on non-vowels? I have tried all kinds of things, but it can't be done in microsoft word, i think. Do you know of any way of doing that? Well, since most accented non-vowels are non-ASCII characters, the first thing you need is a font that supports them. After that you should be able to use your word processor's Insert Characters option to put them in. They probably won't display properly in a post on these forums anyway, though. Sorry. Characters like Alo's — and stuff like ø can be entered through the html code. Some characters don't have html codes, however, and only have numbers. Does this work - @? Edit: Does! :) [ Saturday, January 07, 2006 14:09: Message edited by: Segrin Bilal ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, January 7 2006 15:07 Profile Homepage #35 So I guess I can write... &#x2660! Uh, where does one get a list of what all these things do? I think Wikipedia's page fails me here. It doesn't list every possible four-number hex combination, and there are definitely some that work that aren't listed. [ Saturday, January 07, 2006 15:08: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Saturday, January 7 2006 17:18 Profile Homepage #36 Dikiyoba is glad Dikiyoba isn't the only one to invent languages. !eja amaj ekan! Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Sunday, January 8 2006 01:09 Profile Homepage #37 quote: Originally written by Arcane Methodological Square: More nitpicks! Why would nephilim use a different number system and have no zero because of their number of digits? Not all humans cultures on Earth used base 10, and it's not as though one of the missing fingers could be the zero finger. Human language has nothing to do with the sounds made by other primates to express feelings. I doubt nephil language would be equivalent to other cats' sounds. In fact, even purring could change from an expression of happiness (or whatever it is) to just another sound for communication. If that's true and vocal chords can work even when the larynx is doing what it does to purr, almost all nephil speech could be modified by purrs. (R or R+purr, F or F+purr, and so on). Since nephilim produce warrios aplenty and no mention is made of any lack of nephil stamina, I think it's fair to say that they evolved out of the cheetah model of energy bursts and into the slow and steady one. —Alorael, who would like to know if nephilim from all over the Empire were banished to Avernum and, if so, if they all spoke exactly the same language before coming down. If they didn't, the language of Avernum could become a pidgin of all the pure nephil languages or dialects from the surface. I can't remember ever saying something about using the base 10 system, did I? Actually, when I started this project, I actually wanted something different, really special which will make the Nephilian language a new, interesting thing, and I'm on my way of making it that way. this means that not only the cases and verbs are different, but also the counting system. I was planning on using the Babylonian method of counting, and maybe modify it a bit. The letters m, f ,r and h, as we already broadly discussed, have different pronounciations, also meaning different things. For example this name: Mrrrrfrrrr This is just "Mrrrrfrrrr" for us, humans, but more Mrarhfrarh for Nephilim, if you understand what I mean. I believe that there were two or three main places were Nephilim lived and some still live, therefor giving two or three slightly different dialects, with slightly different pronounciations. You guys are really obsessed with the purring and roaring, aren't you? nods in approval Dikiyoba: nice to see others (apart from me and kelandon) like to make their own language! Welcome to the club! And as soon as I have Nephilian words for this sentence, I'll greet you in Nephilian. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, January 8 2006 01:33 Profile Homepage #38 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: So I guess I can write... &#x2660! Uh, where does one get a list of what all these things do? I think Wikipedia's page fails me here. It doesn't list every possible four-number hex combination, and there are definitely some that work that aren't listed. http://www.unicode.org/charts/ Tremble, mortal, before the might of Unicode. [ Sunday, January 08, 2006 01:42: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Sunday, January 8 2006 06:49 Profile Homepage #39 I added a new part to me website: "major news", where you can read about the Nephilian grammar and the slith grammar. it isn't much at the moment, but eventually, the grammar will be posted there (Nephilian, Slith is kelandon's area). And before I forget, don't start complaining about grammar and spelling mistakes, okay? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Sunday, January 8 2006 07:23 Profile Homepage #40 So those are Unicode numbers. Okay. For some reason, I couldn't see how the numbers lined up with my Character Palette before. In any case, to all of you, I say: &#x2716. Or perhaps more interestingly, &#x10013 &#x1002C &#x10030. [ Sunday, January 08, 2006 07:51: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Student of Trinity Electric Sheep One Member # 3431	written Thursday, January 12 2006 07:22 Profile #41 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: So I guess I can write... &#x2660! A taboo utterance in nephil. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 \| Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Thursday, January 12 2006 07:35 Profile Homepage #42 Nephilian. other then that, indeed: what Student of Trinity said. Other then all that: Now that I'm posting, I thought I'd give a small progress report, although probably nobody is interested. All nouns are ready, basic verb conjugation is also ready, need to make four more tenses. Due to lack of time I can't work on it to long, resulting in a lack of progress. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Thursday, January 12 2006 08:53 Profile Homepage #43 The name Nephilian sounds wrong. "-ian" is commonly reserved for nationality, and even humans would not call it that way. You wouldn't refer to the Slithzerikaii language as Slithian either. The Nephilim word for the language would be an entirely different one, of course. -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Thursday, January 12 2006 09:08 Profile Homepage #44 quote: Originally written by Arancaytar: The name Nephilian sounds wrong. Agreed. I wasn't sure if I should say something before, but I've been thinking this for a while. Oh, and SoT: &#x10029 &#x10004 &#x1000F. And also, &#x10085. [ Thursday, January 12, 2006 09:19: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Thursday, January 12 2006 10:06 Profile Homepage #45 I don't care at the moment if nephilian sounds wrong or not. This is just a temporary name, which means it'll get its name later. I only have seventeen words at the moment, and these are just the really necessary ones. A name for the language will be one of the last things I'll think of. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Student of Trinity Electric Sheep One Member # 3431	written Thursday, January 12 2006 12:53 Profile #46 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: &#x10029 &#x10004 &#x1000F. And also, &#x10085. Touché! -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 \| Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Thursday, January 12 2006 12:56 Profile Homepage #47 By the way, does that display on most people's computers? I had to download a particular font to get Unicode Linear B to show up on my computer. [ Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:56: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Thursday, January 12 2006 14:16 Profile Homepage #48 It worked fine for me. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Thursday, January 12 2006 16:03 Profile Homepage #49 Many languages are simply called by the adjective of the nationality that speaks the language. The adjective for nephil seems to be nephil, so the language should be nephil. So much for learning nephilish or nephilese! —Alorael, who expects the nepharim to demand that the language become nephir or nephal to show acceptance of the nepharim. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00