Inner Sea
| Author | Topic: Inner Sea |
|---|---|
|
Agent
Member # 2210
|
written Saturday, August 7 2004 06:14
Profile
There is no indication where any of the rivers lead in Avernum, other than the waterfall regions. Following the theme all rivers flow to the sea eventually. Is there any indication that there is an inner sea deeper in the caverns of Avernum. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3174
|
written Saturday, August 7 2004 17:01
Profile
Homepage
Probably not a sea, but some sort of underground lake somewhere...kinda makes you wonder what might live that far down.... -------------------- Aa' menle nauva calen ar' ta hwesta e' ale'quenle, melloneamin. --------------------- Finder of impossible beta testing errors. Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, July 5 2003 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Saturday, August 7 2004 17:44
Profile
Homepage
I do kind of assume that there is a large body of water off the map to the west, past Erika's tower. There are already two major bodies of water in Avernum, the one in the north (Empire Archive in A2) and the one in the middle (Sss-Thsss in A1). I guess there's probably one south of the Great Cave, and possibly one east of Formello, too, because those both seem like rivers that have to dump out somewhere. Does anyone else think the geography involved in the Waterfall Warrens is a bit weird? You can go over a bunch of waterfalls (presumably dropping in elevation a great deal) and then head back up to the top without ever leaving your boat or going uphill at all. [ Saturday, August 07, 2004 17:45: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3073
|
written Saturday, August 7 2004 20:02
Profile
Homepage
The waterfalls could really just be very heavy rapids which don't lose as much elevation as waterfalls do. Then again if this were true, why would it be called "WATERFALL Warren". -------------------- I am the way into the doleful city I am the way into eternal grief, I am the way to a foresaken race. Justice it was that moved my great creator; Divine omnipotence created me, And highest wisdom joined with primal love. Before me nothing but eternal things Were made, and I shall last eternally Abandon all hope, all you who enter. Posts: 383 | Registered: Friday, June 6 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3174
|
written Saturday, August 7 2004 20:25
Profile
Homepage
prolly cause they couldnt find anything that went with 'Rapids'? -------------------- Aa' menle nauva calen ar' ta hwesta e' ale'quenle, melloneamin. --------------------- Finder of impossible beta testing errors. Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, July 5 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3073
|
written Sunday, August 8 2004 09:24
Profile
Homepage
What about "Ravaging Rapids"? Assuming that with rapids comes sharp rock, and that those rocks do damage to your boat. Which is most likely untrue otherwise you would have too buy new boats constantly while going through the Waterfall Warren. -------------------- I am the way into the doleful city I am the way into eternal grief, I am the way to a foresaken race. Justice it was that moved my great creator; Divine omnipotence created me, And highest wisdom joined with primal love. Before me nothing but eternal things Were made, and I shall last eternally Abandon all hope, all you who enter. Posts: 383 | Registered: Friday, June 6 2003 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 148
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 08:28
Profile
You do have to wonder. Without locks (or is it loch) how would you put a boat at a higher elevation? -------------------- My ego is bigger than yours. Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 08:40
Profile
Carry it up a hill? -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 148
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 09:02
Profile
I meant by water. Imagine trying to portage a ship over land.... Heavy.. -------------------- My ego is bigger than yours. Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
|
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 13:20
Profile
Magical engines. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 148
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 13:54
Profile
quote:That would work... But how you go 'up' a waterfall? -------------------- My ego is bigger than yours. Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 14:37
Profile
Homepage
Salmon-style, yo. No, that won't be my entire post. I've also wondered a bit about this concept: a river eats away at its foundations, right? Like, the Grand Canyon was dug by a river, and that sort of thing. So what happens when the rivers in Avernum tear down far enough that they bust a hole in the roof of a lower cavern? Vahnatai lands could be in some serious trouble, I think. [ Tuesday, August 10, 2004 14:39: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 2820
|
written Tuesday, August 10 2004 15:29
Profile
I guess that would happen EVENTUALLY, like the possible heat death of the universe. But there are many underground caverns and such in the world and they aren't being destroyed by the bodies of water above them. Rock like granite and basalt are very resilient to the elements, though not by any means invincible. Niagra Falls is currently sitting on a relatively stable rock structure and it is not believed to recede completely into Canada anytime soon. But in another geological period, the falls completely carved through section of weak rock in a matter of months and days. But if the Vahnatai caverns were like a big hollow space underneath another cavern, the weight of it all might accelerate the process of erosion. Let's assume that the lakes in Avernum are deep. The currents near the bottom of really deep lakes and the ocean are driven by low level thermodynamic motions, seabed activity, and certain chemical reactions, and while the current is strong, the rock down there stands up to the non-violent movement of water. But there must be water down in the Vahnatai caverns as well, so it must have gotten there somehow. Unless you believe that they were created separately from all the other water on the planet. Oh yes, volcanoes! I really wonder about the condition of the Vahnatai lands because it is described that the only reason why Avernum is habitable temperature wise is because of its depth in to the ground and the circulating warmth of constant volcanic activity. If it is a damp warm in Avernum, how hot would it be even lower down? But I bet the Sliths would like it down there. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 4202
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 11:47
Profile
Homepage
The problem: water ever flowing down, never coming up. Solution 1: Eventually all the water in the world is going to get to the bottom, wherever that is. Solution 2: Water is created at the top and a: is destroyed at the bottom (the nether realm of the infernal demons and heat?) b: never gets to the bottom, i.e. there is no bottom, the caves are infinitely deep Solution 3: Water is moved from the bottom to the top through a: teleportation b: manual labor c: ancient, automatic technology d: mysterious natural phenomena [ Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50: Message edited by: Isaac ] -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 15:16
Profile
quote:Evaporation. -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 15:29
Profile
Homepage
That's what I thought as well, but it'd require some pretty weird geography to get the water all the way back to the surface. Volcanoes might do it, if you don't mind the idea that there are volcanoes somewhere on the surface constantly spewing steam into the air. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 16:11
Profile
Something just occured to me. What is (EDIT: the world of) Avernum on? I mean, is it a planet? The answer to the whole water question would probably be affected by the answer to what I just asked. [ Friday, August 13, 2004 16:11: Message edited by: Eldiran ] -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 16:31
Profile
Homepage
Community consensus is that the setting of Avernum is a planet named Ermarian. This isn't canonical, but you risk being shouted down if you break with tradition for no good reason. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 497
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 17:48
Profile
quote:Actually, that river is the one you travel down to reach the Vahnatai Lands. It eventually disappears into a giant hole in the ground, going yet deeper into the earth. quote:You're thinking of surface water. Surface water is predominantly rainwater, and since it has been through the purifying process of recent evaporation, it can better act mechanically to dissolve rock and such. Cave water is groundwater. Groundwater is hard; it is saturated with minerals taken from the soil up near the surface. In Avernum, the only reason a river would take a new course would be because it deposited enough mineral encrustations on the old riverbed to force it to change course. Eventually, the caves won't be cut deeper until the world is one big hole. Instead, the caves of Avernum are slowly being filled in as water leaves stalactites on the ceiling and builds stalagmites on the ground. The counter to this process is volcanic action: the fumeroles evaporate the water, thus purifying it so that it may again dissolve the minerals left on the ceiling. More, they also melt the mineral deposits that the evaporating water leaves behind and take them to the surface. quote:You bet they would. Avernite Sliths are exiles from the main Slithzerikai nation which, as is told in Gnass in Avernum 1, is deeper in the caves. The only issue left is that of how water returns to the surface. It has to get there, else all water would long since have been at the bottom of the caves. quote:Like capillary action? Take a glass of water and hang a strip of paper towel into it. The water climbs up the towel. It eventually reaches (and soaks) the top. Eldiran's suggestion also has some merit; wherever an exit to the surface world exists, so too exists a vent for water vapor. However, the cooling, dehumidifying effect of cave rock and extreme distance which the vapor must travel to the exits (not to mention the fact that the Empire shut most of them--possible plot here: Empire creates worldwide surface droughts and mass Avernum floods by preventing vapor escape) puts the kabash on the idea of all the water escaping that way. Instead, I submit that somewhere, and possibly in many places in Avernum, there's dry, semiporous or porous ceiling that sucks up condensing water and wicks it to the surface water table. -------------------- Evil comes in many forms. I am but one of them. Posts: 116 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 2820
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 18:02
Profile
I just thought of something. It must RAIN in the caves! I don't think that it can get cold enough on the cave ceiling to truly condense and freeze and precipitate precipitation, though. Maybe the evaporating water flows through giant holes in the ceilings of the caves back the surface, and surface water drains into caves, and evaporating underground water collects on the cave ceilings and falls back down as the ceiling becomes saturated... -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 18:27
Profile
Homepage
quote:I believe it's mentioned somewhere in Avernum 1 that it doesn't normally rain in the caves, except in a few odd areas where large amounts of water evaporate due to volcanic activity. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 3035
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 19:33
Profile
Homepage
There have been reports of odd gravity wells in the world(http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa120301a.htm) and there could be natural forming pipes that if the sea mass is deep enough could push water from the caves to the surface. As for carrying a ship up a hill that where your summon aid ability comes in lol.. i'm sure theres a magic spell that reduces mass or gravity or causes levitation (the orb of...i forgot the name sorry) -------------------- Geneforge 3 Trainer for windows. [NEWEST v.0.9 ~~ Trainer D/L Here (.zip, 103kb) Posts: 73 | Registered: Monday, May 26 2003 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 21:00
Profile
Homepage
quote:Um, no. I just re-played A2 to be sure. To get to the river that you're talking about, you travel to the northest corner of Formello and go straight DOWN. In order to get to the river I was talking about, you would have to go substantially south and east from Formello. The two rivers are separate, and, I think, on different levels of cave entirely. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 148
|
written Friday, August 13 2004 21:30
Profile
Maybe there is really really deep ocean that connects to the caves (ie underwater). The water mixes, the surface evaporates, it rains, water filters down? Maybe where Avernum is geographically located (in relation to the surface) has several holes and a heavy monsoon season. Water pours in. Maybe Avernum is under an ocean and the rocks filter the ocean seepage. -------------------- My ego is bigger than yours. Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 2210
|
written Saturday, August 14 2004 07:16
Profile
I remember reading Sailor on the Seas of Fate by Michael Moorcock. Although this is not Avernum, there is a giant underground ocean. No light exists in the ocean except for small well lit islands. It would be cool if there were a giant underground cavern with an ocean with a variety of islands on it. No light except for huge bonfires fed by giant mushrooms would exists on some islands where small groups of Vahnati or Slith lived. No humans or Nephilim would have reached these islands yet. Also there would be ruins from some vanished civilization... maybe. I think there could be water gates. The boats would sail through the gates and be teleported to different locations. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |