Concerning Mage and Priest Spells after creation screen?

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AuthorTopic: Concerning Mage and Priest Spells after creation screen?
Member # 3376
Profile #0
How come after the creation screen, once u gain level and start putting points into mage/priest skills.. the spells do not automatically add in for u? So how do i get the spells? Example ice lance is a level 4 skill, i put in points to increase my mage skill to 4, but why ain't it get added???

is there a bug in my game? :(
Posts: 71 | Registered: Friday, August 22 2003 07:00
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Find some who will train you or teach you spells. This game does not give you new spells for free when you advance a level. I think that sometimes you can learn spells from books on pedestals or get a free spell when you complete certain quest (I think).

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Posts: 17 | Registered: Tuesday, June 1 2004 07:00
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Profile #2
Yes, each spell have a level needed to cast and a "power" level...for eg, haste need a minimum of 3 in the skill "Mage spell".And all spells have 5 "power level", that, like Poot said, you can buy from a NPC, or you gain like a reward of a quest, or what you can find in a book...

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Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00
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Advisable to just have a high level mage in the beginning, else you'll spend a fortune buying spells. But hey - we ain't all Archmages.

[ Friday, June 11, 2004 10:35: Message edited by: Micael 456 ]

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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
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Adding many points to mage and priest skills at character creation won't give you more spells past a point. Eventually, you'll have to find them or buy them anyway.

—Alorael, who would also like to point out that there are, in fact, effectively an endless number of levels at which a character can know a spell. The editor goes up to five, but if you want to cast a level 30 War Blessing, more power to you. Literally.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
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i see.. no wonder, ok i restarted my game and put in enuff mage and priest skills such that i am able to get at least ice lance and repel undead..

crypt undeads.. here i come!! :D
Posts: 71 | Registered: Friday, August 22 2003 07:00
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Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00
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"...but if you want to cast a level 30 War Blessing, more power to you. Literally."

You can do that? :rolleyes:
Posts: 17 | Registered: Friday, June 11 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
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If you can find somewhere that will give you level 30 War Blessing, you can cast it. Since that is rather overpowered, you'd need to find or make a scenario that doesn't care much for balance (or one like Doom Moon II, where too much power is required to stay alive).

—Alorael, who really isn't sure why Jeff decided to let the engine do that. There's really no reason not to, but there's also probably never going to be a good reason to use it.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
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I think it's best to start all your characters with at least 1 level of mage & priest spells. That way, everyone can cast heal, bless, cure, firebolt & light right from the start. If you wait till later you have to purchase the spells. Plus, even with just 1 level in each and 2 intellegence, you start with 15 spell points.

Also in a party with one "priest" and one "mage", I like to start them both with 5 levels of mage, 3 of priest. That way both get ice lances and repel spirit at the start.

That party that can cast 4 firebolts per round or 2 ice lances or 2 repel spirits per round right from the very start. Plus, having four healers in your party ain't bad.

Later I make sure to get both spellcasters to level 8 in mage & priest to allow lightning spray and cure all/heal all. Then I'll start heading for the higher level spells and really start to specialize the "mage" and "priest"
Posts: 12 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
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I'd have to disagree. As a general rule in any game - not just Exile/Avernum, if you want characters that are half decent you have to ensure they specialise in something.

Realistically, any character involved in combat doesnt need to cast spells, so investing skill points in spell categories decreases their core effectiveness (as that of a fighter) and is effectively wasted (Why do you need 4 healers?).

I tend to start spreading my skill points alittle only after the core functions of my character have been established (IE, if theyre a mage, then I only start giving them other skill areas after they can function effectively as a mage).

Well, thats just my 2 cents according to my playing style. Keep in mind that spreading your skill points out at the beginning is not necessarly wrong - it could work out brilliently. It just doesnt fit into my playing style..... but thats just me. Its up to everyone as individuals to decide what they want to do.
Posts: 22 | Registered: Tuesday, July 8 2003 07:00
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It just doesnt fit into my playing style..... but thats just me.
Was thinking the same thing, but you have to distinguish between personal preference and possible functional realities. I think most games allow too much of the latter at the cost of the former. By former I mean not having jack of all trade characters which tend to detract from the sense of group effort resulting from specialised characters.

Of course this gets tricky because overly generic and one dimensional characters are not that much fun either.

Anyway at a later stage I have not inhibitions over raising my fighter, fighter/archer/trap disarmer and mage cleric levels to 1 or 2. But initially it just weakens the sense of customising specific characters (main draw to rpgs for me).
Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00
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It is true that characters with one job tend to be more powerful than multi-classers, but when playing with a singleton or a two person party it is important to multi-class to get your required war bless.

Besides, in a fight, a Priest/Fighter could easily kill three powerful Fighters, with one war bless.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
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A mage/priest is more effective than either a mage or a priest. The skills complement each other nicely and you end up with a wonderfully huge pool of spell points to draw on.

—Alorael, who agrees that there is some benefit to giving fighters a few priest spells. Mage spells are far less useful. You'll never get them off in armor. If you need ranged attacks, invest in archery. If you need buffs, invest in alchemy or just shell out some gold for potions.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
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No doubt specialization is key to a good party, but I find that by the end of the Avernum 1,2,3 games I like to have everyone with level 1 priest for heal/bless, my "priest" with level 3 mage (min) for hastes and my "mage" with level 8 priest for the heal all/cure all.

It's only 9 skill points to raise to level 1 mage/priest, which ain't much. Later on that can't even buy you 1 level of the specialized skills.

Because of the fact that you don't die unless you're hit with 0 HP, even a really wimpy heal from a fighter can save someone's life, plus it doesn't drain the "real" spellcasters.

Also, in the beginning they are realtively effective spellcasters. A level 1 firebolt from a level 1 mage/priest, 2 intellegence fighter still does around 10+ damage. That same fighter can heal for around 10 too. (which is at least half of beginning characters HP) Later, once you up the level of the spell it becomes ~30HP (with level 5 heal). Oh, and they have 15 spell points which means they can do it a bunch.

As for the "priest" with level 8 mage and "mage" with level 8 priest, it's a much easier argument. Having 2 haster / blesser / mass healers / area of effect spells can make you kick some serious butt... especially in the beginning. 2 ice lances/ per round will rip through opponents. Same with repel spirit.

Then, once area of effect spells become too weak to really take out opponents, or with big battles with many spellcasters / archers, it's back to old hack and slash. Here's the general strategy:

round 1: "priest" & "mage" haste selves. (They have low dex, but after the haste they go first in round 2, essentially 3 spells in a row)
round 2: "mage" hastes fighters 1 & 2
"priest" blesses fighters 1 & 2
now everyone's hasted and fighters are blessed after 2 rounds (with no potions)

or, against the undead in diplomacy with the dead

round 1: "priest" & "mage" haste selves.
round 2: "mage" and "priest" both launch 2 repel spirits each. "priest" does ~100HP x 7 targets x 2, mage does ~80HP x 7 targets x 2. Thats about 2500 damage per round spread out over 28 targets. Usually this means wiping out 14-18 undead (the hard types) PER ROUND. Fighter types are almost unneccesary (except as shields). Plus the undead only got to go one turn.

Anyway, those are just a few variations.

I don't think I need to explain why having 2 people who can mass heal / mass cure is a good idea. Especially since there are a bunch of monsters who can cast forcecage. Plus, at high levels, buying priest levels for your mage or vice versa is a cheaper way to get more spell points.

No doubt having multi spellcasters in the party is a good thing, but my point was to buy the levels at the beginning which some folks disagreed with.

The argument for that is a simple one: economics. If you calculate the cost of buying all the spells you get later it's close to 6,000 GP which is a huge leg up for any starting party! (if you're not using the editor)

Check it: 2 characters, "extra" lvl 1 mg/pr = 5 spells each (around 1000GP per char), 1 character "extra" lvl 5 mage = 7 spells (maybe 2500GP?), 1 character "extra" lvl 3 priest = 5 spells (perhaps 1500GP?)

Granted, some of those spells are pretty useless, but that's a ton of cash you'll save. Plus later when you find a book to increase your heal spell (for instance), everyone gets it.

I don't think spending 9 skill points at level one really gives you a harder time "specializing" your "non-spellcasting" characters down the road. I think it's totally worth it, especially for a party just starting out.
Posts: 12 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00