Make kills from your summons give you experience?

AuthorTopic: Make kills from your summons give you experience?
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #0
Anyone else think this is a good idea? It would make summoning spells much more useful which would give the game more tactical depth, right now they're not that great.

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 656
Profile Homepage #1
This I think would make it to simple to gain higher levels way too early in the game and unbalance play, which is never good.

Anyway, it would be time consuming and tedious. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to stand around and kill weak monsters for an hour just to gain one level.
Posts: 127 | Registered: Wednesday, February 20 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #2
How would it increase tactical depth may I ask?

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Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #3
I don't know about tactical depth, but it would be nice to not have all the summoning spells rendered virtually useless since depending on them cripples you in the long run.

—Alorael, who still probably wouldn't use summoning. It's more fun to splatter yourself with ichor and gore than watch other things get splattered.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #4
I think Melaw misunderstood - killing your OWN summons is bad, but you should get experience if your summons (and allies, possibly) do in the enemies.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #5
Why should you get experience (think abbout what that actually means) for something else killing things. Experience comes from practice, ie. killing things yourself.
It would make sense to get experience from actually summoning things, but that obviously wouldn't work in a game, and especially not in Avernum.

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Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1014
Profile #6
personally i agree that summoning aint that great and that experience shouldnt be gained from summon's kills, but from actually summoning, so along with the suggestion of breaking up the spell classes differently, not into mage and priest but healer, offensive, summoner shielding/blessing/etc for example it could be that summoning has a % chance of success just like physical attacks have a % to hit and cause damage you could do this with offensive spells as well, think about it: when flinging an ice lance at someone they arnt going to sit there and take it square on the nose... "argh an ice lance *duck*"...plus even if they did you might just miss or even fail to complete the spell because you're more concerned with dodging the halberd being swung at your head, though taking the real nature of combat into account in the turn based structure could be nigh impossible...
anyway where was i
putting the experience on successfully casting the spell would make it very easy for people to level their summoner, find a town and go summon happy... simple answer make summoning a combat only spell (cant remeber whether it is or not) and make it so you can only enter combat when there are hostiles in sight
Posts: 165 | Registered: Saturday, April 20 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 720
Profile #7
So, basically you want it to be like FFTactics where you got exp from everything? You got it practically by moving (and there are abilities where that is possible).

That would certainly be interesting, possibly more realistic, but I don't know if it's feasable for the game engine. Yes? no?

Although, spell percent-to-succeed would be neat.

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-Daravon
Posts: 104 | Registered: Friday, March 8 2002 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #8
You already get experiance from when a friendly kills a hostile. But not nearly as much.

I think summoning is useful when up against a particularly annoying sort of mage, and you need to provide him w/extra targets. Though I've never gotten very many monsters from summoning in Avernum.

Exile, on the other hand, can provide you with Ghasts, which are very effective.

And also:

quote:
Originally posted by cheesemeister:
[QB]for example it could be that summoning has a % chance of success just like physical attacks have a % to hit and cause damage you could do this with offensive spells as well, think about it: when flinging an ice lance at someone they arnt going to sit there and take it square on the nose... "argh an ice lance *duck*"...QB]
Ya see that? That's where you lost me. That whole extended sentance there confuses the heck out of me.

[ Tuesday, June 03, 2003 12:43: Message edited by: Desert Plah ]

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Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3050
Profile #9
I personally like to use Summoning just to put some cannon fodder between my mage, preist and the hordes of monsters, as 1 Soldier, and 1 Berzerker cant cover that much space when fightin larger groups.

I think what he meant was that Summoning should have a %chance to fail, it shouldent be garunteed, although that part about the Ice Lance kinda lost me...

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Posts: 9 | Registered: Saturday, May 31 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #10
It would add tactical depth, because then summon spells would be a lot more useful (right now most people seldom use them except the occasional illusions and simulacrum. The more viable options for the strategy you use, the better.

[ Tuesday, June 03, 2003 16:23: Message edited by: Jawaj ]

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #11
The main strategic use of summons is as cannon fodder or to attck people (although the latter tends to become less useful). Making summons give you experience adds an extra incentive to use them, but adds no depth to current tactics using them, and creates no new tactical ways of using them.

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #12
Yes, but if summons gave you experience it might add another viable way of doing your battles besides the standard "buff, hack, and burn."

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1886
Profile #13
Actually, being able to chose where you put your summoned creatures would be nice. Especially if you could specify the type of monster you were going to summon, or at least the type of creature (melee, missile, magic, fire-breathing, undead, etc.). Give the spells a low maximum range (say, five spaces at most) and then allow the summoner to choose where the beasties will show up. That would allow a more tactical use of the summoning spells.

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Posts: 505 | Registered: Saturday, September 14 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2940
Profile Homepage #14
I realy like that idea of being able to chose where you put your summoned creatures, like in the good old exile series. Its kind of anoying when the summoned creatures appear behind the caster in a close indoor combat. Placing the summoned creatures could require a 4th level in summoning. Also, if summoned creatures gave you experience then it should be considerably less than in normal combat because you could actually get some experience from observing combats.
By the way, one idea that could be realy usefull is the capability of targeting a particular friendly unit to use spells on.
One more thing, It should be allowed to slay your own summoned creatures and not make a friendly town angry...you give them life you sould have the right to take life from them. Not that I am a sadistic murderer or anything but sometimes you just need to release some anger...

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Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, May 1 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3138
Profile Homepage #15
It would be nice 2 get XP from yoyur creatures and be able 2 choose where they r placed and get xp from killing them. Especialy since I do it so much. I just don't get enough fights, so sometimes i just have 2 create some 2 have fun with ya know? It's better than ,killing off whole towns and ticking people off.

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Posts: 151 | Registered: Sunday, June 22 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #16
This is funny: Did anyone notice that the last two posts said almost exactly the same things? :D Just, uh, differently. ;)

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