Help Me. (A.K.A Look at my Scenario)

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Author	Topic: Help Me. (A.K.A Look at my Scenario)
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Monday, March 13 2006 06:03 Profile Homepage #0 As a lot of you may know, I'm currently attempting to write a scenario. And I need help. A lot of good people (Thralni, NightSwamp, Khoth...) have given advice so far, and have given me a lot to think about. Acting on that, I sat down and evaluated the work I'd done so far... And I'm afraid it's bad. There are glaring oversights. It's poorly designed. I'm starting to dislike it. So I'm going to host the whole thing for a while, and let some of the pros take a look. If you have a spare hour or so, please go through it, and see if it's okay? In particular, I'd love for TM, Kelandon, Stareye, Khoth, Ash and Ephesos to look, although anybody can download it... Oh, and I should mention that THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE SCENARIO. So I don't want a post tomorrow saying "Hey, I can't find the magic cane in the Goblin Fort", or whatever. :) It's also in Windows format, due to custom graphics. So, the file is here: A Good Beginning.zip Thank, Nik xx [ Monday, March 13, 2006 06:16: Message edited by: Kira Maku xx ] -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Dintiradan Guardian Member # 6670	written Monday, March 13 2006 07:38 Profile Homepage #1 May or may not have time to look at it. Hopefully, I will. You seem to not have mentioned how we are to respond to you in your post. Posting replies, sending PMs, sending e-mails... -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: No matter how attractive certain members of the rebellion are, there is probably someone just as attractive who is not desperate to kill me. Therefore, I will think twice before ordering a prisoner sent to my bedchamber. Posts: 1509 \| Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Niemand Infiltrator Member # 5576	written Monday, March 13 2006 07:45 Profile Homepage #2 I'd say that it looks pretty good so far. I like the town and outdoor design; they look good and still make it easy to get around. The plot device with the crystals sounds rather strongly like that in A Perfect Forest, and it's a bit unclear why all of the mages are acting crazy. Over all it looks like, if it is finished and has a few details worked out, it can be a reasonably good scenario. I put together a cmg file for Mac users to be able to see the way that SupaNik intended things to look. You can get it here -------------------- Überraschung des Dosenöffners! "On guard, you musty sofa!" Posts: 627 \| Registered: Monday, March 7 2005 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Monday, March 13 2006 09:22 Profile Homepage #3 I already sen you an email, and as I said also in the email itself, I'd like to discuss some things. When will you be able to be logged in at MSN/AIM? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Monday, March 13 2006 10:14 Profile Homepage #4 I'll see if I can give it a look today or tomorrow... Spring break is so wonderful. And is this meant to be an alpha/beta call? If so, it's the most informal one I've ever seen... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Monday, March 13 2006 11:27 Profile Homepage #5 quote: Originally written by Ephesos: And is this meant to be an alpha/beta call? If so, it's the most informal one I've ever seen... It's neither. It's an "I'm making a scenario, but think it sucks, and so need some designers/players to offer feedback and advice on it" call. Seriously. I've been thinking. I like what I have. But even at this stage I can see errors, oversights and so on. The scenario isn't complete. My original post said as much. :) As for reaching me to offer feedback and advice: (in bold for clarity) Email at: nikkisjeffery(at)hotmail.co.uk Reply in this thread. Chat on AIM (Handle: Saralfur) or MSN (using above email address) As for Niemand's response : quote: I'd say that it looks pretty good so far. I like the town and outdoor design; they look good and still make it easy to get around. The plot device with the crystals sounds rather strongly like that in A Perfect Forest, and it's a bit unclear why all of the mages are acting crazy. Over all it looks like, if it is finished and has a few details worked out, it can be a reasonably good scenario. I did get a lot of details from Stareye, so plot similarities are HIS fault. :P Thanks for the feedback on town design - this, at least, I feel I'm good at. As for the magi acting weird... The shade/ghost/whatever is using mind powers to get them to free it. Think the second Harry Potter book where Ginny did all sorts without knowing it. That's what I'm aiming for, at least. :P Thralni: I'll be on tomorrow hopefully. There, hope that's all okay! [ Monday, March 13, 2006 11:28: Message edited by: Nikki xx ] -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Ash Lael E Equals MC What!!!! Member # 5491	written Monday, March 13 2006 11:37 Profile Homepage #6 Will take a look when I can. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 \| Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Xoid Shock Trooper Member # 932	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 03:41 Profile #7 A huge, unsorted list of observations and bugs: Error Message: "Fort Bluebird Error: Unmatched parenthesis in line 65".Dialogue - Jessica: "...pause. _Then, weel, when..." should be "...pause. _Then, well, when..."Dialogue - Rita: She says nothing.Error Message: "Fort Bluebird Error: Improper command in line 48."Error Message: "Fort Bluebird Error: State not ended properly in line 9."Error Message: "Outdoors Error: Missing semicolon in line 0".Intro text doesn't display properly: it doesn't fit.Initial special encounter: "There also doesn't seem to be any..." should be changed to just "There doesn't seem to be any...". Also: "...get upto speed..." should be "...get up to speed...".Dialogue - Bill (Weapons): "...you'd prefer to muck out a dragon, or..." should be either "...you'd prefer to muck about with a dragon, or..." OR "...you'd prefer to muck around with a dragon, or..." OR something similar.Special encounter - Fort Orchid (1): the encounter at the smithy does not get turned off after triggering it the first time.Special encounter - Fort Orchid (1): I think that the encounter at the temple; "...yet high-ceiled temple, a..." should be "...yet high-ceilinged temple, a..." - someone correct me if I'm wrong here.Error Message: "Fort Orchid Error: Unmatched parenthesis in line 69". Unless you are saving the script in Mac format, (plain carriage return) as opposed to Windows format (carriage return & linefeed) you will get incorrect line numbers from BoA.Outdoors (0,0): Make your forests less 'uniform'. They don't seem chaotic enough to actually be a forest.Fort Orchid (1): Barracks has nothing in the lockers.Fort Bluebird (2): Barracks (x25,y45), kitchen (x40,y45), and the "Women's Toilets" (x13,y43) are completely barren. Spice it up a little.Fort Bluebird (2): Not all the doors at the "Women's Toilets" (x13,y43) are locked.Fort Bluebird (2): Demon pit is non-exitable. Add a stairway, prevent the party from jumping in, or let them starve to death for being numbnuts.Fort Bluebird (3): Completely empty. If unneeded, delete it.Fort Bluebird (3): Height is set incorrectly in a storage area, near x45,y12.Fort Bluebird (3): Floor type 42 & 43 are used at the edges, causing an unnatural repeating set of floor tiles. [ Tuesday, March 14, 2006 03:41: Message edited by: CPeters ] -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 \| Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 03:59 Profile Homepage #8 All taken into account CPeters. I should stress this is not a complete sceanrio, again, and as such, has not been debugged. That said, some of your "bugs" shouldn't be happening. Especially in Town 1. Rita should also talk, unless I've seriously messed up somewhere... I'll check when I get home from college later. Fort Bluebird is also unfinished. Hence the lack of anything in certain areas... Right: Error Message: "Fort Bluebird Error: Unmatched parenthesis in line 65". - Didn't get this error. Dialogue - Jessica: "...pause. _Then, weel, when..." should be "...pause. _Then, well, when..." - Okay, squished that typo. Dialogue - Rita: She says nothing. - This seems to be an error with the creature script. She is changing sides too soon. I'll have to check this later, since I've not got access to the Scen Editor. Error Message: "Fort Bluebird Error: Improper command in line 48." Error Message: "Fort Bluebird Error: State not ended properly in line 9." - Didn't get these. Error Message: "Outdoors Error: Missing semicolon in line 0". - This one confuses me. There is a semicolon. I'll check later. Intro text doesn't display properly: it doesn't fit. - It does for me, although it is close. Again, I'll shave this off later. Initial special encounter: "There also doesn't seem to be any..." should be changed to just "There doesn't seem to be any...". Also: "...get upto speed..." should be "...get up to speed...". - Points noted. Dialogue - Bill (Weapons): "...you'd prefer to muck out a dragon, or..." should be either "...you'd prefer to muck about with a dragon, or..." OR "...you'd prefer to muck around with a dragon, or..." OR something similar. - No. You'd prefer to muck out a dragon. I.e, clean it's waste... Special encounter - Fort Orchid (1): the encounter at the smithy does not get turned off after triggering it the first time. - Simple flag switch. Fixed. Special encounter - Fort Orchid (1): I think that the encounter at the temple; "...yet high-ceiled temple, a..." should be "...yet high-ceilinged temple, a..." - someone correct me if I'm wrong here. - Not sure. :P Error Message: "Fort Orchid Error: Unmatched parenthesis in line 69". Unless you are saving the script in Mac format, (plain carriage return) as opposed to Windows format (carriage return & linefeed) you will get incorrect line numbers from BoA. - What caused this? I can't replicate it. Outdoors (0,0): Make your forests less 'uniform'. They don't seem chaotic enough to actually be a forest. - Will do. Fort Orchid (1): Barracks has nothing in the lockers. - They have scripts preventing you from using them. Fort Bluebird (2): Barracks (x25,y45), kitchen (x40,y45), and the "Women's Toilets" (x13,y43) are completely barren. Spice it up a little. Fort Bluebird (2): Not all the doors at the "Women's Toilets" (x13,y43) are locked. Fort Bluebird (2): Demon pit is non-exitable. Add a stairway, prevent the party from jumping in, or let them starve to death for being numbnuts. - Town not finished. Fort Bluebird (3): Completely empty. If unneeded, delete it. Fort Bluebird (3): Height is set incorrectly in a storage area, near x45,y12. Fort Bluebird (3): Floor type 42 & 43 are used at the edges, causing an unnatural repeating set of floor tiles. - This town is surplus to requirements. I toyed with using VTE, but decided not to. [ Tuesday, March 14, 2006 04:19: Message edited by: Nikki xx ] -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Xoid Shock Trooper Member # 932	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 04:08 Profile #9 I'm sorry that I was unable to be more helpful; the problem is that it is both short and incomplete. Apart from the fact that the dialogue is generally a notch above what I've begrudgingly becommed accustomed to, that there are bugs and that it is incomplete, there is not much more that can be said. With all that in mind it looks very good, so far. I (mostly) like the atmosphere you're creating, but I doubt you'd add surrealist style humour simply to appease my prediliction for it. -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 \| Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 04:22 Profile Homepage #10 What I want to know then, CP, is it worth continuing? -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Xoid Shock Trooper Member # 932	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 04:30 Profile #11 Definately. It shows a lot of potential. Needs to be fleshed out, but could be a great lil' scenario. EDIT: Some of the error messages were achieved through stepping on special encounters, others through entering a town. If I had time, I could have trawled through the scripts and pointed out errors, but I'm sleepy. You may want to get something like Notepad++ or Crimson Editor and use the 'C' or 'C++' language for syntax highlighting. It's close enough that it'll help you spot errors in your code faster. [ Tuesday, March 14, 2006 04:34: Message edited by: CPeters ] -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 \| Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 04:31 Profile Homepage #12 quote: Originally written by Nikki xx: Error Message: "Outdoors Error: Missing semicolon in line 0". - This one confuses me. There is a semicolon. I'll check later. I got this one as well in a certain town with a ialogue script. You can still move around and talk thouhg, so its not really a problem this error. However, it is irritating. [ Tuesday, March 14, 2006 04:32: Message edited by: Mc 'mini' Thralni ] -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Dintiradan Guardian Member # 6670	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 07:50 Profile Homepage #13 Okay, most of what I found has already been posted. I realize this isn't even a beta test, but a few things to consider and a few bugs to squish before you do release it: - People refer to you as adventurers, even if you're playing a singleton. It's a bit more work, but alternate dialog like Kelandon does in Bahs is nice. - Not only did Rita not say anything to me, she attacked me the moment she saw me. - The message box displays every time I enter the smithy, set a SDF to this. - After getting a message that I can't pass the barriers in the mage tower, I can still pass them. - The high wall in Fort Orchid is nice-looking, but could possibly obstruct view (probably not a problem in a friendly town, though). - No quests are listed in my quest list, and I can't seem to advance the plot (could be my fault for a very quick playing, though). On the whole though, it seems it will be a great way to spend an hour or so. Good work! -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion. Posts: 1509 \| Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 07:55 Profile Homepage #14 Alint gives me a slew of errors. They almost all involve parentheses or typos within functions (forgetting to put the right things at the end of an add_dialog_str, etc.). EDIT: The point has been made. As per Ephesos's request... There are many, many more. Use Alint. [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 17:24: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:05 Profile Homepage #15 Erm, with respect Kel, Alint is wrong. I played through that town just now, and it's all okay. There are no errors, nothing. I'm not saying that the file is error free. I'm saying that I'm not seeing the errors :P -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:09 Profile Homepage #16 Take a look at the original lines and compare them to my fixed lines. There are errors, even if you're not triggering them in-game. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:21 Profile Homepage #17 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: *Take a look at the original lines and compare them to my fixed lines. There are* errors, even if you're not triggering them in-game. Aye aye skipper. What I really wanted to know, though, was what you thought of the plot/designing. -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00**
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Thursday, March 16 2006 09:30 Profile Homepage #18 I've just updated the link with a new version. A lot of minor little bugs were ironed out. You should be able to play it all, up to the point where you meet the shade. You can get it by going to the link in my first post, or through my website. -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Thursday, March 16 2006 17:23 Profile Homepage #19 Alright, haven't looked at the most recent version yet, but I'm loving the town design. Fort Orchid may very well be the first Empire fort that seems distinctly not depressing. Would somebody de-stretch the board? [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 17:23: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Immortal BANNED Member # 4	written Thursday, March 16 2006 21:59 Profile Homepage #20 quote: Originally written by Ephesos: Fort Orchid may very well be the first Empire fort that seems distinctly not depressing. I was about to disagree, but then I remembered that the only two Empire forts I've made have been a ruin and Ft. Ivalice respectively. :P Anyway, I like the scenario's premise, and the execution isn't bad... Although (and I think you know this) it ends way too soon to even be called much of a beginning. Don't worry about your skill, though- you're plenty competent enough to pull off a good scenario with what you have thusfar. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Friday, March 17 2006 12:55 Profile Homepage #21 quote: Originally written by Get Nathan Ashby's Groove On: Anyway, I like the scenario's premise, and the execution isn't bad... Although (and I think you know this) it ends way too soon to even be called much of a beginning. Don't worry about your skill, though- you're plenty competent enough to pull off a good scenario with what you have thusfar. Wow. I'm humbled. These words mean the most to me out of everyone who has posted thus far. Thanks, man. Right, so, do I make the scenario longer by adding filler? Maybe a first quest to visit the crystal caverns, or something? I can't make the Blades Chat, but I'll try to get to a chat client sometime tomorrow, if anybody wants to talk. (Tomorrow being Saturday here.) And welcome back, TM. -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
The Immortal BANNED Member # 4	written Friday, March 17 2006 16:51 Profile Homepage #22 quote: Right, so, do I make the scenario longer by adding filler? Maybe a first quest to visit the crystal caverns, or something? Filler isn't what you need. (If it contributes to the plot, so be it- but then it's no longer filler, now is it?) All I was saying was, "finish it already." And if it turns out that it isn't as long as you would have liked, then so be it- it's better to be a bit short but have all things be tangentially related (Shadow of a Stranger) than to use filler to make a scenario longer (Burned to the Ground). Although if you want to make a fun sidequest at a point in the plot where tension is let down for a while, that's okay too... Just be sure to make it GOOD. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Friday, March 17 2006 18:24 Profile Homepage #23 Initial reactions: it's pretty. The outdoors is small and functional. Fort Bluebird looks nice. My first thought was to check the number of towns by looking at the number of town scripts (before I'd even opened the scenario), but then I realized that you hadn't numbered your town scripts (i.e. t2Fort Bluebird.txt). It might be a good idea to do so, just to keep things organized. Skimming through the scripts, I'd say this is perfect for a first-timer's scenario. It has lots of dialogue, not many towns, not a lot of combat, but plenty of things to get one started. And the plot appears decent. Finish up whatever you need to finish for a beta test, and then send out a real beta call. Just bear in mind that it doesn't have to be long or complicated; it's your first scenario. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Saturday, March 18 2006 07:46 Profile Homepage #24 Right. Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'm gonna leave the scenario on the 'net for now, and set to work adding to it. If all goes well, I'll be done shortly, real life permitting. And I think that Kel is really nervous about the amount of bugs... So I'd like to say "don't be!" I'll use Alint (even if it means using the DOS version). I'll check my scripts again and again before the beta hits. So don't worry. -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00