Delving Deep Into Bahssikava

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AuthorTopic: Delving Deep Into Bahssikava
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #0
This is for Kel, since I'll wager he's curious what I think of his celebrated scenario after my savage shredding of Canopy. I'm not done with Bahssikava yet...Phaedra just joined me and I'm just going in to face the demon infestation. But I have some comments for you in the meantime before I forget. Don't be scared. :)

I'm enjoying this one. Nice use of characters, background, story, sense of progress. Nice balance of combat and challenges and some breathing space. It feels thoughtful.

I read reviews and knew there was going to be a shortage of places to buy and sell things. My archer has been out of arrows for most of the scenario. I finally used the character editor to give him back some of those stored bolts I lost in Canopy. I'm still getting used to leaving loot behind as the plot pulls me forward in various add-on-scenarios, but it seems to work without too much frustration here, though I do seem to have left behind a nice cache of items I had been pulling out of the caverns under Bahssikava. Best I can tell, when it came down to it, one only gets to the place to unload it by going through the Doors anyway, so pick and choose carefully. Being a high-level game, I already have most of what I want or need, so the focus isn't on acquisition so much anyway.

I really liked the original quest at Bahssikava in Avernum 1, though that was actually nearly the only quest I never successfully finished in that game. I couldn't find the last triangle I think, then never made it back to try again. I liked that dungeon and envionment though. A nice revisitation and expansion. I like levels that delve deeper and deeper down.

My verdict is still out on the somehow fusion of vahnatai history with the sliths, but I have yet to see where it is going. At first, when hitting another laser/mirror puzzle I recoiled in horror, but managed to figure out what I needed to do without referencing any hints and managed to pull it off even without much annoyance. I still don't like lasers and factories in a fantasy world at all, but that is beside the point. This was a well-made puzzle and for a change it was nice to go somewhere that wasn't simultaneously infested by monsters too (Tower of Zkal, bleah). All in all, relatively painless.

I can see why Kel garnered top prize with this one. It has a nice overall flow and feel so far. I hope some legitimate fletchery is to be had at some point here.

Nice use of scripting sequences so far too...the origin of the Prophet, the fate of the temple, following Kass through the secret passage while having a conversation, fording the river, etc.

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 20:49: Message edited by: synergy67 ]

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Shaper
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Profile #1
Forum Leader: Please delete this post.

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 20:49: Message edited by: synergy67 ]

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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #2
Minor note, synergy: Stop double-posting. Edit, it saves time.

And please, for the love of all things good and pure, register at the Lyceum and rate the scenarios you've played. All of us could use the feedback.

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I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #3
quote:
This is for Kel, since I'll wager he's curious what I think of his celebrated scenario after my savage shredding of Canopy.
While Kel is curious, I expect TM is something similar, but starting with 'f'. :P

Bahs was nice, though. So was Canopy, although the parts where it got metaphysical (or I thought it did?) weren't explained sufficiently.
All in all, Bahssikava was better than any given Avernum game in terms of plot.

The Vahnatai culture merging with the Slithzerikai is something that I didn't really (and still don't) believe. If that really is what Kel was hinting at in those architectural descriptions, I must say it's quite far-fetched.

But as I've said before, I play for the background story/history first, then for the plot, thirdly for the game. What Bahssikava may or may not have done to balance the latter two, it's included plenty of the former. Ergo, I
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #4
Ha ha, I do love wordplay. Good one, Arancaytar. Oddly, I somehow imagine my statements about Canopy would be gratifying to TM if anything.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #5
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

The Vahnatai culture merging with the Slithzerikai is something that I didn't really (and still don't) believe. If that really is what Kel was hinting at in those architectural descriptions, I must say it's quite far-fetched.
I'm trying to remember now what in the Avernum series made me think of this, because I didn't just make that up.

I think it had to do with the description of the architecture in the Deeps — it sounds like vahnatai architecture, but I thought it would be much more interesting if sliths built it than if vahnatai did. The sliths in Avernum who can build buildings learned their skills from humans, so it seemed to me that the sliths who built those buildings had to have learned from vahnatai.

Oh yeah, and also since both sliths and vahnatai come from deeper in Avernum, I thought it would make sense that they had contact at one point.

Anyway, I was just suggesting that the vahnatai had once known sliths — which A2 inadvertently suggests when a vahnatai in Olgai says that the vahnatai had read about sliths in books — and that they had taught them civilization.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'm glad you're enjoying Bahs so far, Synergy. I added some arrows somewhere, but I forget where. You should be able to reload your stock soon, though.

[ Saturday, September 17, 2005 16:14: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by synergy67:

I somehow imagine my statements about Canopy would be gratifying to TM if anything.
Why would you think that ripping on someone elses work would make them greatful?
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #7
Because there's no such thing as bad publicity. A lot of people secretly or openly enjoy generating controversy or even outright antipathy. If TM is either of those sorts, I think he'd surely be the latter. Notoriety is simply another form of fame.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Master
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Profile Homepage #8
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

The Vahnatai culture merging with the Slithzerikai is something that I didn't really (and still don't) believe. If that really is what Kel was hinting at in those architectural descriptions, I must say it's quite far-fetched.
I'm trying to remember now what in the Avernum series made me think of this, because I didn't just make that up.

All right, I'm pleased to see you didn't come up with that (I didn't play Bahssikava as yet, but I will). If there is one thing I really hate, then it is that in almost every scenario the Vahnatai sooner or later appear, doesn't matter how far fetched it sometimes is. Really, every scenario I played until now (except Small Rebelion and babysitting) contained the Vahnatai! How can they be in all places at once!

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Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

[QUOTE]All in all, Bahssikava was better than any given Avernum game in terms of plot.
I guess we'll have to agree to strongly disagree.

Also, humans are everywhere, so why not Vahnatai? We only meet one clan proper of Vahnatai in the series, but there are stray Vahnatai from other clans in VoDT and on the surface of Avernum 3.

Also, I find it interesting that Kass manages to tell you an incredibly lengthy story while fleeing from murderous Sliths. Also notice that you two are the only people that could manage to drive off said Sliths should you have stayed and fought.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Master
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quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Also, humans are everywhere, so why not Vahnatai? We only meet one clan proper of Vahnatai in the series, but there are stray Vahnatai from other clans in VoDT and on the surface of Avernum 3.

Yes, that's right, but these are humans. The surface is their place. I don't think its really credible that you see the Vahnatai, an old and in my opinion mighty noble race, in every dying corner of the Empire.

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Play and rate my scenarios:

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View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #11
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Also, I find it interesting that Kass manages to tell you an incredibly lengthy story while fleeing from murderous Sliths.
You're going a fair distance, if you hadn't noticed.
quote:
Also notice that you two are the only people that could manage to drive off said Sliths should you have stayed and fought.
No, neither of you could. That's the point. And Legare actually stands the best chance of fighting them off if that were his goal, but it's not.

[ Sunday, September 18, 2005 05:15: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #12
Why did we have to clear out the tunnels if there was this secret back way in the first place?

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #13
Aside from the fairly immediate danger posed by monsters right outside the building, you mean? Engineers went down that way to work on some bridges, but they risked life and limb to do so. The drakes don't just attack the party.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #14
But we bypass the bridges and drakes when we follow Kass.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #15
Holy hopping Hakaai, Batman! Kel, I'm battling the demon hordes at present and have encountered two, no wait, three little anomalies in case you'd like to know.

1) In the control room that holds the slith crystal souls, when a switch is in center position, the dialog box when looking the switch control says the switch is in the right position. The choices for movement are correct: left or right. I already solved this puzzle, but it was confusing with the incorrect position being indicated. It was consistent though.

2) In the big battle room fighting the Hakaai leader along with the imps, etc., the flying demons do something weird under the following conditions: I have entered fight mode, then ended combat in an effort to get everyone in the same area again. The next flying demon which crosses the chasm flies off to the southwest and completely off the screen into blackness at which point the game freezes. It's not a fatal freeze. I can force quit BoA to escape.

3) Another curious anomaly: If I move my party leader into the one square that the first flying demon intends to occupy after flying over the chasm, he blinks back onto the bridge instead of landing. Muahuahaaaa...

QUESTION: I have Phaedra and the former slith prisoner in my party now. I haven't been able to get them to round the pit room in this battle with my main two PC's. They stay off to the west. If I end combat to get them to rejoin me down south b the bridge where my PC's have migrated, all my party members instead reform back on the west entry area by the 5th and 6th members. Is this intentional?

More random notes:

1) "Khassper" the slith ghost. Very funny.

2) Poetry--so far--is wisely not overly self-indulgent. ;)

3) I have noticed that fifth and sixth party members will often get left behind if they begin combat too far away from or out of line of sight with some immediate adversary. I have gone through a few battles here now where Phaedra and/or the slith hung out just around the corner the whole time. I realize this is not in the hands of the scenario builder to remedy, but it became especially apparent playing this scenario. If I want them all in the fight, I have to get closer to the foes in town mode before entering fight mode. It means more damage up front.

4) I have received now two awesomely potent spear weapons in this scenario. Too bad my fighter happens to be a melee master. :(

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 20:39: Message edited by: synergy67 ]

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Shaper
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Forum Leader: Please delete this post.

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 20:27: Message edited by: synergy67 ]

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Shaper
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Forum Leader: Please delete this post.

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 20:31: Message edited by: synergy67 ]

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Shock Trooper
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Wow. If you want to add more, just edit. Triple posting is a bit excessive.

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"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending"
Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #19
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

But we bypass the bridges and drakes when we follow Kass.
No, you don't. The two bridges right next to to the steel gates are new — Talas and co. have just built them, as a message indicates. And the mind-bending drake lord could've sensed you across the water just as easily as on the other side of the dungeon, and had you not killed the drakes along the chasm in the first level, those drakes would've been just above your head in the Tunnels.

quote:
Originally written by synergy67:

1) In the control room that holds the slith crystal souls, when a switch is in center position, the dialog box when looking the switch control says the switch is in the right position. The choices for movement are correct: left or right.
Odd. I never noticed this before. A (hopefully) fixed version is on my website now, though.

As far as the flying demon, I know that the script has some sort of problem, but I've never been able to replicate it. I think I'll give it another try soon to see if I can track this down once and for all.

For NPC behavior and ending-combat locations: I have essentially no control over that. It's the BoA engine itself.

[ Sunday, September 18, 2005 19:59: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #20
Why don't you throw something into both the Slith's script as well as Phaedra's which tells them to approach the lead character while in combat mode if the script-running character has nothing else to do?

And since it seems you haven't seem all the messages about multiple posts, STOP DOUBLE-POSTING! AND TRIPLE-POSTING AS WELL! :P

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
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NPCs' creature scripts don't do anything. They just run basicnpc.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
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The exception is the DEAD_STATE, which does work properly. Everything else in the custom creature script, though, seems to be ignored.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #23
I don't get what's up with the fuss over how many posts someone makes.

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 20:42: Message edited by: synergy67 ]

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...b10010b...
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UBB is a huge disk space hog, and there's a lot of HTML code associated with each post in a topic. Disk space for these forums is always tight (there have been two mass purges of old posts already), so it's better to keep related stuff in a single post when it's reasonable to do so. There are exceptions to the no-double-posting rule if you intend to bump a topic or are replying to separate posts from different people in the same topic.

I kind of suspect that all of the advice people give about not double posting takes up more space in total than the double posts themselves, but oh well.

[ Monday, September 19, 2005 16:44: Message edited by: Puerperal Fever ]

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