Combat in Canopy Poll

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AuthorTopic: Combat in Canopy Poll
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Thursday, May 5 2005 17:34 Profile Homepage #25
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

And one quirk that just doesn' seem quite right (and I'm not sure if this was fixed after I downloaded it), is that the non-player spells don't use up your AP!
Sounds like you're not using the most recent version of BoA. The deduct_ap() call didn't work on player characters in older versions.

EDIT: Bah. TM got in before me.

[ Thursday, May 05, 2005 17:35: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
moonear
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
 written Friday, May 6 2005 07:00 Profile #26
quote:
Don't play this game. No Access, Locked, non-admin accounts having No Access. (That means you can't even COPY the script.) Point is, I can win the being-an-******* game.

And honestly, I think some scenarios need to be hard. Some scenarios need to bring out the best aspects of combat and not have it be spoiled by neophytes. Some scenarios should be achievements.

I probably won't make higher-level parties mandatory, but I am most definitely considering locking the text files and including a level uphike for enemies when a given party is massively above the level intended. Since most of the challenges are script-based, this should not be a problem.

If the point of the scenario is for the designer to control every aspect of the game play then why bother releasing it to the public. Enjoy your neat coding and game trickspat yourself on the back and have a cold drink to celebrate.

Personally, I prefer those who release scenarios and allow players to determine how they will obtain enjoyment from playing. If I want to use a God party and make winnning the scenario mundane and predetermined, but I find enjoyment from that so be it (My preference is to rely on the designers recommendation and try at or a little above the recommendation).

If one wants to be a God designer, so be it. I will keep my God parties (and all other parties) out of those scenarios on principle alone.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
ryk
Apprentice
Member # 2209
 written Monday, May 9 2005 18:25 Profile #27
i havnt tried making a scenario yet (got a couple ideas, but they are going to have to wait till the semester's end before i try doing anything with them) and i have no clue on the scripting and such.

but would it be possible to do certain things scaled on the partie's level? like have it a set way for up to x level, but beyond that it gets ridiculously hard?

personally, i like to play _all_ the scenarios that come out, and i do it all with my singleton. granted, most arent challenging combatwise at this point, but i can still enjoy the story and the puzzles and such.

i think that my major complaint about canopy was the way it altered spell levels and such. I thought it was a neat way of doing new things with combat, but not everything reset properly, i ended up using hlpm to buy up some of the spells i had lost running through it (cloud of blades? not sure)
Posts: 15 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, May 9 2005 18:36 Profile Homepage #28
Yeah, taking away CoB was somewhat ill-conceived in hindsight. I've suggested an alternative solution to the Cloud of Blades problem, and I hope TM uses it in future scenarios.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Monday, May 9 2005 18:51 Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by ryk:

personally, i like to play _all_ the scenarios that come out, and i do it all with my singleton.
I hate it when players do this.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Immortal
BANNED
Member # 4
 written Monday, May 9 2005 19:23 Profile Homepage #30
I still stand by my decision to remove Cloud of Blades. It is abusive by definition, and probably shouldn't be in ANY scenario.
I'll look into its not being regained upon exiting the scenario, though.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Imban
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
 written Monday, May 9 2005 19:42 Profile #31
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by ryk:

personally, i like to play _all_ the scenarios that come out, and i do it all with my singleton.
I hate it when players do this.
Eh. I also play through all released scenarios with one party. Difference is that I also complete them each on their own.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
ryk
Apprentice
Member # 2209
 written Monday, May 9 2005 23:49 Profile #32
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

[b]
I hate it when players do this.[/b][/QUOTE]

meh, forget i said it, what you don't know won't hurt you ;)

i guess one of the problems i had with blades of exile was the stat maxes on everything, and eventually scenarios came out that were nigh impossible to handle with a singlton. one of the major points i really liked about the avernum series, not having stat maxes(at least, not any sort of realistic ones...) so with enough boredom and obsession, i can get my singleton powerfull enough to handle any given scenario.

and personnally, i dont think cloud of blades is too overpowered, i rarely use it. dunno, bout the only times i can think of using it is when ive got a mess of enemies to fight, and some are invisible, and i cant reach them or something. though, i cant remember the last time i used it.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Tuesday, May 10 2005 00:29 Profile Homepage #33
The trouble with Cloud of Blades is that it inflicts damage as a percentage of the target's HP. Against very high-level enemies it can do 600 damage or more. The solution is to lower the monster's HP and raise its resistances instead -- a monster with 1/4 of normal HP and 75% resistance to everything will take 1/4 of the damage it otherwise would from normal attacks, but only 1/16 of the damage from Cloud of Blades.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Formerly II
Apprentice
Member # 5542
 written Saturday, May 14 2005 06:27 Profile #34
quote:
Originally written by ryk:

i havnt tried making a scenario yet (got a couple ideas, but they are going to have to wait till the semester's end before i try doing anything with them) and i have no clue on the scripting and such.

but would it be possible to do certain things scaled on the partie's level? like have it a set way for up to x level, but beyond that it gets ridiculously hard?

personally, i like to play _all_ the scenarios that come out, and i do it all with my singleton. granted, most arent challenging combatwise at this point, but i can still enjoy the story and the puzzles and such.

i think that my major complaint about canopy was the way it altered spell levels and such. I thought it was a neat way of doing new things with combat, but not everything reset properly, i ended up using hlpm to buy up some of the spells i had lost running through it (cloud of blades? not sure)
Well, to adjust a scenario to the party's level, all you would need to do is something like this:
level = get_level(random_group_member(1000));
if (level > 100)
set_level(ME,100);
if (level <= 100)
set_level(ME,level);
However, this would make funky things I cannot forsee happen. Spells and skills would be crazy, hp would be much larger or much less than the usual ammount...
Posts: 30 | Registered: Thursday, February 24 2005 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Saturday, May 14 2005 14:26 Profile Homepage #35
Yeah, altering monster levels is a pretty blunt instrument. Then again, the sort of players who bring a god party into every scenario they play probably deserve to be hit with a blunt instrument.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
I'll Steal Your Toast
Agent
Member # 2210
 written Saturday, May 14 2005 14:58 Profile #36
Generally,
I try to play it once with the appropriate level party, then run through it with my Cheesy Party of Doom -- 85th level. I also have a singleton now 48th level. Some dungeons have party levels way off in sections initially, too high or too low.
In a way there is an advantage in running through a very high level party can be realistic. It allows you to check every corner-- map out the dungeons completely so they make sense-- with far sight. Make sure all the details are done properly. Check every point on the map. Unlock all the doors, check the traps, remove all the barriers. Make sure all the quests work properly. This can be done with an overpowered party not an appropriate level party. Check every inch.
Also, with most crack teams-- most of their time is spent on routine mop ups until something big comes along.

[ Saturday, May 14, 2005 15:05: Message edited by: Duke of Toast ]

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Saturday, May 14 2005 15:05 Profile Homepage #37
Oh, I don't begrudge the use of god parties for testing purposes, but level-100 monsters won't stand up to a real god party anyway. What annoys me is players who insist on using a party that's already been through every other scenario under the sun and then complain about the combat being too easy.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
I'll Steal Your Toast
Agent
Member # 2210
 written Saturday, May 14 2005 15:14 Profile #38
Once you have a really strong party, all of the combat will be too easy. At about level 50-60 with a four character party, there is very little that they will not be able to defeat if designed properly. I use the high level party mainly to check things out-- the combat is automatically too easy. This is with the current scenarios.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00

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