Combat in Canopy Poll

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AuthorTopic: Combat in Canopy Poll
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #0
I've been reading and re-reading reviews of Canopy, and a thought occured to me. But before I verify this, I'll hazard a poll here to get some results.

Suffice it to say that regardless, I will be barring players from taking significantly overpowered parties into future scenarios (and Canopy v2.0).

Poll Information
This poll contains 2 question(s). 55 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4445
Profile #1
I liked it and played at the appropriate level, but I always bring in parties towards the top of the range given for any TM scenario. I also had recourse to the artifacts hall before entering, so I could see how the HLPM might not adequately prepare a party for this scenario.

[ Monday, May 02, 2005 08:24: Message edited by: PoD person ]
Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #2
I played with a level 50 party. I did use the Artifacts Hall and HLPM for equipment and supplies. After getting better equipment I stopped dying and enjoyed Canopy very much.
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Agent
Member # 1993
Profile #3
Canopy's combats are fine and idiot-safe IMO since you give us these marvellous scry devices. I played it at level 30. The only fight I had to reload several times was the dark idol.

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Slartucker: * facepalm facepalm facepalm *
Dikiyoba: Are you unconscious yet?
Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #4
Does it count if I finished with a party below the appropriate level? :P

(Level 30, non-Divinely-Touched, straight from the HLPM. I've also beaten it with a level-25 party, but that was Divinely Touched so less impressive).

Personally, I'm not going to exclude god parties from my scenarios (they're useful for testing and reviewing purposes if nothing else) but I will include a warning message in the START_SCEN_STATE if a significantly overlevelled party is detected.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #5
If you put that into Canopy v2.0, I'm just going to take it out of my version, I don't think you should bother.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 5588
Profile #6
Yeah, what Kel said
Posts: 14 | Registered: Thursday, March 10 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #7
I could also set my text files to being read-only. Then what?

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #8
Then I would either change their permissions or not play your scenario.

Ultimately I don't see what is to be gained by preventing people from finishing your scenario, even if they do it on terms that you weren't intending.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #9
Don't play this game. No Access, Locked, non-admin accounts having No Access. (That means you can't even COPY the script.) Point is, I can win the being-an-******* game.

And honestly, I think some scenarios need to be hard. Some scenarios need to bring out the best aspects of combat and not have it be spoiled by neophytes. Some scenarios should be achievements.

I probably won't make higher-level parties mandatory, but I am most definitely considering locking the text files and including a level uphike for enemies when a given party is massively above the level intended. Since most of the challenges are script-based, this should not be a problem.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4710
Profile #10
Just to point out that the Terminal and some fun use of the sudo command can pretty much override anything that you throw at it; then again, what would the fun be in breaking through the security measures?

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Life is short. Use a Mac.
Posts: 85 | Registered: Wednesday, July 14 2004 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #11
Unix permissions don't have any effect at all on PC users, TM. :P
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4590
Profile #12
I liked Canopy's combat, but I think it can be fun to play through with a way too high level party sometimes, just to be able to see everything in a scenerio, or to go through just to see the story, or to get to some part of it quickly to check something out or something.

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I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation.
- George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 103 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #13
I played with a party only slightly below the advisory level in terms of experience, but in the process of the scenario, beefed them up to near indestructibility as the enemies progressively flattened my party in the first turn. This is mainly because I hadn't taken the party through previous TM scenarios, and they didn't have any appropriate weaponry.

TM baddies are basically unbeatable without TM weapons. Luckily the baddies stay in their scenarios, but the weapons get out and find their way into other vulnerable adventuring eco-systems.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 250
Profile #14
I actually played with a party below the recommended level. I wanted to use my party which had beaten DWTD, and only come out at about level 25. I have absolultly no idea how I got out of DWTD at such a low level though.

I didn't use the editor at all, (Although I did fix two combat related bugs I saw in the scripts, one was that the bugbear mages martyr beam was for some reason had both a call to take away 300 hitpoints, and a call to do 100 unbockable damage, and I've read you posting that it was only supposed to be doing the 100 damage. Second was that in the big fortress, the script incorrectly had the lieutenant you kill on the 5th floor be the one that alive on the 7th floor with the one you didn't kill being dead, and I assumed it was supposed to be the other way around)

Of course being such a low level made some of the combats extremely difficult, with the bugbear holy warriors being near the top of the list in the number of attempts it took. Really the only reason I was able to win was that I was very stubborn.
Posts: 61 | Registered: Saturday, November 3 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #15
Out of the weapons I'll likely be carrying into Canopy, Aran, two of the four are TM weapons. One, the Blessed Axe, is just sitting on my priest, who sucks at melee anyway.

Really, TM doesn't have any unbalanced weapons outside of Canopy. Yet.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2104
Profile Homepage #16
I don't think I've played a single scenario without a God party (besides BOE VoDT, of course). I'm a sad, sad person.

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—Zxquez Zolohahni
Xerch'de/Rate.
Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #17
quote:
Originally written by Imban:

Out of the weapons I'll likely be carrying into Canopy, Aran, two of the four are TM weapons. One, the Blessed Axe, is just sitting on my priest, who sucks at melee anyway.

Really, TM doesn't have any unbalanced weapons outside of Canopy. Yet.

Claymores.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 5542
Profile #18
This is just a really small point, but there were too many pause() calls in the creature scripts. They slowed down my game, so I lowered the times.

Oh, and I hated the Dark Idol. I couldn't beat it without summoning truckloads of monsters, and that meant I wasted about a minute each turn as the Dark Idol blasted my poor little summonings. Maybe next time, the reincarnated Idol will only strike a set number of monsters, rather than every one in sight.
Posts: 30 | Registered: Thursday, February 24 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4710
Profile #19
However, if TM were to change the way the Dark Idol fights, it would lose some of the challenge that makes that battle so rewarding, much like all the others in the scenario. Personally, I like the scenario for its complexity of each of its battles due to their uniqueness.

[ Tuesday, May 03, 2005 15:14: Message edited by: JMAN123 ]

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Life is short. Use a Mac.
Posts: 85 | Registered: Wednesday, July 14 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4404
Profile Homepage #20
I like the idea of making the module difficult and an Achivement. People who use the Editor as life support arnt fun.

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People says Microsoft paid 14 million dollars for using the Rolling Stones song "Start me up" in their commercials. This is wrong. Microsoft paid 14 million dollars only for a part of the song. For instance, they didn't use the line "You'll make a grown man cry".
Posts: 42 | Registered: Wednesday, May 19 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 5542
Profile #21
quote:
Originally written by JMAN123:

However, if TM were to change the way the Dark Idol fights, it would lose some of the challenge that makes that battle so rewarding, much like all the others in the scenario. Personally, I like the scenario for its complexity of each of its battles due to their uniqueness.
Then no bloody pauses.
Posts: 30 | Registered: Thursday, February 24 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #22
My justification for this is the justification for Tetra-Disaster. If you have all explosions at once and then damage, it will:

1) Still take lots of time for the damage
2) Be nonsensical, what with creatures being damaged after being hit

I might consider this for v1.0.5, but time is running low. We'll see.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #23
Hm... biggest issue with the Canopy system: way the heck too many boss battles and cutscenes! To add to that, some of the bosses were vulnerable only to non-player spells that I'd somehow not found.

A few boss abilities were just unfair to my roughly level 40 party (a bit overpowered), to the point where I just had to run up, summon Baldev, and run away again.

And one quirk that just doesn' seem quite right (and I'm not sure if this was fixed after I downloaded it), is that the non-player spells don't use up your AP!

Pardon my rant.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #24
You need to update to the most recent version of BoA and/or Canopy.
AP should be subtracted when you cast the spells. This not having happened is a result of either (or both) condition above.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00

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