Radiant's Relevancy: another sequel update
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| Author | Topic: Radiant's Relevancy: another sequel update |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, July 19 2004 02:38
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Hi there, sorry for the delay, folks, but here is the latest version of the ST2 beta. http://www.liacs.nl/~psimoons/dls/subtwo.exe (edit, typo in the url) As usual all reported bugs have been fixed, also several of the requested object changes have been implemented (and several have not). See below for details. Bugs fixed: If a rock falls upon a random sorter and something is in the way, the rock will now start moving once it is no longer blocked, just as with motion fields. Granite rocks now properly destroy transmuters Speedy shoes combine well with gravel now Knight sprite fix Golem will lay dirt over mountain king controls Can now cross gate onto marble and similar stuff, just like the port Slime correctly removes floor tiles Enemies walking over wire buttons Sorcerer now destroys water/barriers/etc when conjuring stuff onto them Fixed linkboxes with multiple player figures. Pink gems now glow pink rather than blue Reading level files created by other people should work now ...and probably a bunch of others that I forgot about Things that aren't bugs: When the sorcerer creates stuff, he's not actually moving down, but does a spellcasting animation. This is kind of hard to see though, it's been made a bit clearer. That speedy shoes only work while moving through open space, i.e. not while digging through dirt or picking up gems or something Note that in the special case of two players (not two figures of the same player) each being surrounded by linkboxes, neither can move because both are blocked by the other. This is due to the fact that the players don't actually move simultaneously. Munchkins don't steal keys in any case, that's intentional (except for the white key) It is fairly difficult to make an interesting two-player level. This is not really intentional, but it follows from the game design. I am considering to make a more sociable game in the future, but by necessity this will have less puzzle elements. Faerie implementation: where q = LEFT or RIGHT, and r = 0,1,2 or 3 For each tile: if the next tile is a wall, turn the OPPOSITE direction of q and invert q else increment r by one if r >= 3, turn the direction of q and invert q and reset r to zero Omlette: regarding 'possible bug'... what we've got here is a very tricky timing situation that doesn't come up all that often. The key is that, while objects appear to move simultaneously, internally they are moved one after the other, by one pixel each. In your level, rocks are cloned in sequence by the teleporter. In most cases, the previous rock has moved first, and is away from the teleporter, so that a new rock can be created. In some instances, the previous rock moves AFTER the rock to be teleported, so a new rock cannot be created since the previous rock is still blocking the teleporter's exit. I hope that made a bit of sense. The point is that this is not a bug but a quirky result of the way the game is created, and it is not possible to fix it without reworking the game's kernel, which would break a lot of other levels. The solution? Simply make a bit more space between your rocks as they teleport. Regarding object additions or modifications... * More decorative objects - approved, will be added in the future. * Icy floor - approved, but the skates will not be back. * Other enemies triggering Mountain King - approved; the daemon and the dog will now trigger any MK triggers they walk over. Note, of course, that the MK will never chase /them/, only you * Enemies able to cross areas that the player can't - approved. From now on, faeries can fly over water, sorcerers ignore laser beams, and demons ignore motion fields. Note that all enemies can already cross magic fields, and golems can cross water (thereby removing the water) * Motion fields should push the player onto marble/dirt/savedisks/etc ... good point. If you had made it while ST1 was in development, I would have changed it. However, at this point I don't want an object that is in both ST1 and ST2 to function differently in either, since that may confuse players. Sorry! * Marble shouldn't block teleporters for players - denied, because I'd prefer that the teleporter works the same way for every object. And since it is blocked by marble for every object other than the player, it should also be blocked for the player. Also this is exactly the way it functioned in ST1, which is nice for consistency. * Monster that turns left/right when it hits a wall - already in place, as that's exactly what sorcerers and golems do (and the faeries, if you must) * More barriers, say a green one - I would think that with the wires, you can overcome this limitation easily. Simply don't use the blue and pink buttons, but hotwire every barrier to a switch somewhere. * Expanding walls from ST1 - denied, since it's not that interesting an object in the first place, and you can duplicate the effect of blocking a passage in a LOT of other ways * Duplicator from ST1 - denied, since it wasn't much used in ST1 either, and people seem to not like it much. * Cloner from ST1 - denied, since that's what the portals are for. The cloner is ubiquitously used in ST1, and ST2 requires another kind of 'engine' * Skelwing from ST1 - denied, since that's what the sorcerer is for; same reason as above. * The rotation and deflection fields - denied, since they're too similar to the motion fields, and they're not really used all that much even in ST1. * Egg with diamond inside from ST1 - denied, since it wasn't used all that often in ST1 either * Dynamite - denied, because it has ruined too many puzzles in ST1 * Invisible triggers - denied, because I don't like invisible things * New graphics for faerie/knight/mountain king - denied unless somebody actually has new graphics for me, simply because I don't have any That's it. Comments are of course welcome but please add an explanation. [ Monday, July 19, 2004 04:48: Message edited by: Radiant ] -------------------- Pieter Simoons, aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Monday, July 19 2004 05:53
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So as a test, I downloaded the file from the other topic (the 'here's another level' one). It still says 'wrong version number' when I try to open it. Presumably either the bugfix only affects levels created in the latest version, or it just plain doesn't work. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 00:37
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Ouch. Hate it when that happens :( okay, it goes on my list again. -------------------- Pieter Simoons, aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 00:50
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A few bugs with time stopper: 1. No red bars. 2. When you stand on munchkin, when timestopper ends you don't lose any tools. 3. When you push linked boxes depending on their placement in the level, you either go under them or over them. Also: 1. When you create boxes they have ice graphic 2. When you switch teleporter 4 exit on, then push fuse box into teleporter 4 start downwards, the player disappears and the game freezes (sort of) 3. And also when you create fuse box using box generator, then push it into teleporter 4, the box on the generator disappears, When you walk onto the generator, the other box moves and you can walk on it. Like invisible box, like ice graphic - like linked boxes. (Nos 2&3 were both used with a teleporter 4, and exit with switch leading to it.) 2. Also if you do it with 2nd player, 1st player disappears, When 2nd player dies, game freezes. 4. And why can't the second player move without the first player somewhere in the level? (Incidentally when I found out 2 for the first time, it was very scary.) [ Wednesday, July 21, 2004 01:09: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ] Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Friday, July 23 2004 12:44
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Bugs: 1) When enemies pass through teleporters, they occasionally disappear, especially the knight. 2) If the sorceror facing right is placed in the level with nothing to create and is free to move, very bizzare things happen. 3) Occasionally if a blue/orange wall is turned on while an enemy stands on it the wall will go invisible instead of disappearing, although the enemy still dies. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, July 26 2004 04:09
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Stewboy -> 1A.the red bars were removed since I didn't like their looks; I'll add some other fx for time stopping. 2A,3A,1B.Oops, well found! 2B and up - I don't quite understand you; maybe you could create a small level to illustrate the point? Omlette -> do you maybe have a small level that demonstrates the problem? Because bugs that start with 'occasionally' are very hard to track down otherwise. Thanks! -------------------- Pieter Simoons, aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2397
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written Saturday, July 31 2004 13:52
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Another bug: If a sorcerer creates another sorcerer over a water tile, both the water and the new sorcerer will disappear and then the water will continue functioning as water. Posts: 150 | Registered: Monday, December 23 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Saturday, July 31 2004 20:08
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More bugs: []D_[] where [] is wall, d is demon (or watever) and _ is empty space. When you do replay at fast forward, the graphics make it look like there are 2 demons dancing. Also, when you play a level and exit, then press on the undo button, VERY wierd things happen. For example, tiles at random turn into other tiles at random. Steel walls turn into border. And in munchkin mines, in replay, when player frees tracker from trap, it disappears. And also when you play Electric Boogie, it still says 'Unknown by Radiant'. Same for tutorial 11. A suggestion: If all (most) falling objects fall off rounded walls, shouldn't balloons fall up off rounded walls? I mean the upside down ones. You could use gravity reverser and a rock, but the trouble with gravity reverser is that it messes up quite a few other puzzles by destroying and/or muddling them up. [ Monday, August 02, 2004 02:26: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ] Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, August 2 2004 02:50
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Okay, a new update has been uploaded (same link as above). It fixes all bugs until my last message above, because that's the last time I checked the forum. All bugs fixed, except for these two: 1) When enemies pass through teleporters, they occasionally disappear, especially the knight. 3) Occasionally if a blue/orange wall is turned on while an enemy stands on it the wall will go invisible instead of disappearing, although the enemy still dies. I haven't been able to replicate them. If they occur again, please provide a small level to demonstrate the point. Thank you! bobxp -> noted, will be fixed. Stewboy -> that's not a bug, it's a consequence of the stroboscope effect produced when fast-forwarding. Eep. Undo isn't suppoed to be possible after playing a level, I'll fix that. Balloons aren't round enough to roll (like in ST1) however you can use conveyor belts to move them sideways. And thanks for your persistence!! -------------------- Pieter Simoons, aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Wednesday, August 4 2004 02:12
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Do you know how many more beta versions there are going to be before the final one comes out? Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Thursday, August 5 2004 04:12
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Depends on how many bugs you guys find. -------------------- Pieter Simoons, aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Wednesday, August 11 2004 01:34
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A question: How are you doing in music and sound? Because in my opinion, a game's not a game if it doesn't have some sort of music or sound. Bug: When you push a rock onto a demon, the explosion misses out the centre bit. [ Thursday, August 12, 2004 22:43: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ] Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Friday, August 13 2004 06:47
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I have several funky-sounding MIDI tunes that I'm allowed to use, because the calm ST1 music didn't appeal to many people. Sound effects will be on par with ST1, e.g. anything I can find on the web sound resources. -------------------- Pieter Simoons, aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Wednesday, August 18 2004 01:57
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Bug: When you start surrounded by 4 linkboxes, and to the right are some left-moving motion fields, and you move onto the motion fields, some wierd things can happen, eg nonexistent linkboxes. This also happens with sorter and other motion fields. Bug: When you push linkbox onto water, it turns to goo, but the image of the water still remains though you can walk on it. Possible bug: When sorcorer moves toward wall, and at the moment it hits the wall, it generates something that it can walk on (eg arrow), it reverses direction. Otherwise it turns left. Note that only sorcorers, warriors and golems are affected by arrows. [ Wednesday, August 18, 2004 22:17: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ] Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4031
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written Thursday, August 19 2004 15:04
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I've found a problem. When you save a level with hints in them, and then you quit and reload, the hint text is gone. This is creating problems for my upcoming levels. -------------------- html://srmboe0.tripod.com - My Website, filled with my BOE scenarios, Avernum 3 hints, and my Exile Stories. Check it out! Posts: 26 | Registered: Wednesday, February 25 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Saturday, August 28 2004 00:39
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I was just fooling around with three players, a few bombs and a few walls, when I was surprised by all three players simply walking off the screen! I haven't been able to repliciate it yet, though. Maybe it was just a freak bug. Possible bug: When you use time stopped, get tool and stand on munchkin, when time stops you lose your tool but theres no 'eat tool' graphic. EDIT: 100 posts! Yay! [ Friday, September 03, 2004 02:17: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ] Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Thursday, September 2 2004 11:50
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Several interesting things about knights: 1) When a knight walks over a trigger for a wire, he presses it twice, so it goes on and then off again. This can be easily reproduced: p=player w=wall k=knight r=rock s=switch -=wire b=green barrier (starts on) When the knight walks over the switch, the rock falls through the green barrier, but it stays closed. More interesting, when the knight stands still on a switch (it's fairly easy to make him do that, too) he generates a continuous stream of those purple things. The easiest solution, I suspect, is to stop the knight from triggering switches. Also the knight still becomes invisible sometimes when going through teleporters. I don't have a reliable way of replicating it, but it does happen fairly frequently on my computer. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5167
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written Saturday, March 12 2005 17:37
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The link does not seems to work out as well... I can't get to the site! -------------------- Finished Sub2 levels: Shop"keep"er Machinery Complex Machinery Complex2 Machinery Complex3 Machinery Complex4 Munchkin City In progress: None Abandonned: T.E.L.E.P.O.R.T Sub-Way Posts: 80 | Registered: Saturday, November 6 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5502
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written Monday, March 14 2005 17:30
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The subtwo.exe program won't run on Windows XP. subtwo.exe The NTVDM CPU has encountered an illegal instruction. CS:0536 IP:0168 OP:63 69 74 69 65 Choose 'Close' to terminate the application. -------------------- Current SubTerra level: Control and Contain Completed/Pending: Emerald Sparkles Factory, Nice Vibe Posts: 20 | Registered: Monday, February 14 2005 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5573
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written Tuesday, March 15 2005 06:35
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Dunno if omlette mentioned this but a sorceor facing left with nothing infornt of him will go spaz and turn into all sorts of things and then trigger the knight disapear bug. *sends level off to Radiant* -CM Posts: 24 | Registered: Friday, March 4 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5167
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written Thursday, March 24 2005 14:49
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quote:oh no!!! i have XP... :mad: -------------------- Finished Sub2 levels: Shop"keep"er Machinery Complex Machinery Complex2 Machinery Complex3 Machinery Complex4 Munchkin City In progress: None Abandonned: T.E.L.E.P.O.R.T Sub-Way Posts: 80 | Registered: Saturday, November 6 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5619
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written Thursday, March 24 2005 15:00
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Me too!!! I should buy a mac computer...... :mad -------------------- If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Posts: 90 | Registered: Wednesday, March 23 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Thursday, March 24 2005 16:09
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Grrrr... This won't work on Windows. G3 is coming out on Mac first. Just great... -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Sunday, March 27 2005 00:50
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quote:Funny, it works on my XP... but I downloaded it a few months ago, maybe things changed Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5647
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written Friday, April 1 2005 18:19
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subtwo.exe The NTVDM CPU has encountered an illegal instruction. CS:0536 IP:0168 OP:63 69 74 69 65 Choose 'Close' to terminate the application. I get the exact same error message when trying to run this version on XP Home. I've run the program compatibility wizard, but that didn't help. From what I can tell, my computer detects SubTerra 2 as a DOS program. [ramble]Origionally, I had accidentally downloaded the Linux version from the Crystal Shard site, which obviously didn't work. I thought then that ST2 only had a Linux version until I read the replies to my question on a Windows version of ST2. I then downloaded subtwo.exe from this thread, and got the above error message. [/ramble] Posts: 11 | Registered: Wednesday, March 30 2005 08:00 |
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