Earth as Sucia Island

AuthorTopic: Earth as Sucia Island
Apprentice
Member # 4829
Profile #0
Me born in the 20th century. When young, my elders told me of shapers who create this planet. They were mighty and powerful, and did many good things. They made us to do their work and in return they looked out after us. But I never see them. The elders say they are gone, but always watching, so we myst always do their work, and please them.

But I don't believe in shaper. It seem like this work is stupid. I suppose to collect books for some lady who can't even read!! "Shapers would like that," she says. She never see a shaper either, maybe shaper don't even want those books! Servile just do what they think they should do, what they think shaper would want them to do, but they really don't know. Serviles want to serve, and there nobody to serve, so we serve our own ideas. I go serve my own idea, not some studip old book lady idea.

Sometime I think I only one who think this way. Maybe I go away to do my own work, be my own shaper. Maybe more think like me too...
Posts: 5 | Registered: Saturday, August 7 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 618
Profile Homepage #1
Hmmm...?

I'll take it one way, an interesting line of thought. Not bad.

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Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio
Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4592
Profile #2
Not bad.

And Earth is a pretty dirty place, and an Island as such in the vastness of space.

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quote:

"I suffer from spiritual malaise," said Cugel meaningfully. "which manifest itself in outburst of vicious rage. I implore you to depart, lest, in an uncontrollable spasm, I cut you in three pieces with my sword, or worse, I invoke magic."
Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga)
Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #3
God is a Shaper?

PAWNS! We are all PAWNS!

Jeff has re-written the Bible. H0rj! Better than the real thing.

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ahhahaha i rule u droool
Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #4
It's certainly something of an instigation to critical thought. What relation exists between two sentient beings one of who 'made' the other - if scientists clone a human, is that human their property? If god (or what we see as such) made mankind, are we his/her property?

I wouldn't say the game made me agnostic, as I've been that way pretty much all along. But it caused me to look at these questions from an entirely new angle.

Wonderful topic there, yogu. This proves that not only the General forum can contain interesting moral debates. :)

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1723
Profile #5
That is rather insightful... I wonder if Jeff intentionally left those parallels, or if it just ended up that way. Interesting when you really stop to consider it...

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I hate signatures.
Posts: 277 | Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4889
Profile Homepage #6
*shivers* This should be moved to the general forum,would be nice to hear others opinions.

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Its just my opinion,i could be wrong.

Lothgar Gaming!
Posts: 20 | Registered: Monday, August 23 2004 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #7
Oh, they'll find their way here, eventually. Those who are interested in Geneforge, at least. Posting topics concerning Avernum/Geneforge/Nethergate in General is not very appriciated. Which is, in a way, weird.

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ahhahaha i rule u droool
Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4592
Profile #8
We are serviles to God. Some are angry and defile the image of divinity, others act like slithering snakes and lick the divine's testicles, yet others seem to be more neutral. They accept the divine, but they rather go their indiependent way.
We have tried to be our own divinity for a while now, messing around with the laws of nature and the divine's plan, trying to do what they (it) did.
As for being anybody's property, this what Number 6 had to say about it:
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own."
Which is cute to say, but oftentimes not that simple.

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quote:

"I suffer from spiritual malaise," said Cugel meaningfully. "which manifest itself in outburst of vicious rage. I implore you to depart, lest, in an uncontrollable spasm, I cut you in three pieces with my sword, or worse, I invoke magic."
Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga)
Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1723
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Botched Some Corrigenda:

We are serviles to God...
...We have tried to be our own divinity for a while now, messing around with the laws of nature and the divine's plan, trying to do what they (it) did.

I would argue that we aren't serviles to God, but rather serviles to the idea of a higher being (God, Allah, Lord Ganesha). And I would argue we have been our own divinity from the beginning. Any religion is an attempt to explain what otherwise cannot be explained; humans invented God as a sort of comfort against the fear of death, the uncertainty of life, and to explain the origins of the universe. The slow but sure movement of the modern world away from religion, and the continual death and birth of religions is a reflection of our continually changing understanding of the world around us.

[ Tuesday, August 24, 2004 15:41: Message edited by: *Sound Effect* ]

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I hate signatures.
Posts: 277 | Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4592
Profile #10
Couldn't agree with you more, *Sound Effect.*

And to take the analogy down a different path, running the risk of causing it great bodily harm, what may have begun as an attempt to offer explanations for natural phenomena, life, the universe and everything has changed, in some cases, into organizations that shape some people's lives. Some have become, in a way, Shapers, by using religion as an excuse to create paradigms of control and power.

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quote:

"I suffer from spiritual malaise," said Cugel meaningfully. "which manifest itself in outburst of vicious rage. I implore you to depart, lest, in an uncontrollable spasm, I cut you in three pieces with my sword, or worse, I invoke magic."
Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga)
Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #11
There's something that none of you have mentioned yet, though, about this parallel. If there is a God as I believe, a purely good entity, Shapers are not his equal. First, Shapers are more like scientists than gods - they create with research, magic, etc., and they, themselves, had to come into existance somehow. They were created. Subsets of God, maybe, but not God himself. Second, Shapers are obviously not purely good. That should be self-explanitory. To rebel against pure good is pure idiocy; to rebel against the Shapers, however, is another matter entirely.

DIOS/BSC (what do you want me to call you on Spiderweb?), your breakdown left out plenty of grey space. What about those, like me, who accept the divine, avoid the licking of testicles, go our own independant way, but allow God to guide us when he wants and work for him when possible? I wouldn't consider myself a fundie, but I wouldn't exactly consider myself an agnostic, either. There's plenty of space in between.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

Polaris = joy.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4592
Profile #12
Hey David! I guess in SW BSC is fine. Yeah I left a lot of empty spaces, I was throwing a few ideas, it wasn't meant to be comprehensive at all, it would've required a far longer post for it to be so.

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quote:

"I suffer from spiritual malaise," said Cugel meaningfully. "which manifest itself in outburst of vicious rage. I implore you to depart, lest, in an uncontrollable spasm, I cut you in three pieces with my sword, or worse, I invoke magic."
Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga)
Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #13
quote:
Originally written by Lady Davida:

There's something that none of you have mentioned yet, though, about this parallel. If there is a God as I believe, a purely good entity, Shapers are not his equal. First, Shapers are more like scientists than gods - they create with research, magic, etc., and they, themselves, had to come into existance somehow. They were created. Subsets of God, maybe, but not God himself. Second, Shapers are obviously not purely good. That should be self-explanitory. To rebel against pure good is pure idiocy; to rebel against the Shapers, however, is another matter entirely.

DIOS/BSC (what do you want me to call you on Spiderweb?), your breakdown left out plenty of grey space. What about those, like me, who accept the divine, avoid the licking of testicles, go our own independant way, but allow God to guide us when he wants and work for him when possible? I wouldn't consider myself a fundie, but I wouldn't exactly consider myself an agnostic, either. There's plenty of space in between.

In fact, David, the God you believe in is not necessarily pure good. Unless I'm mistaken, the Obeyers seem to think the Shapers can do no wrong, much like you think your god can do no wrong. You, sir, are the lady with the books.

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4829
Profile #14
Who said anything about God?!?

COuld there have been a time in our mythological past where us serviles and shapers lived together on this island? Weren't there giants and titans who roamed this earth? Could we have been servANTs to angels and Ellohim? Sure there exist stories, but over thousands of years on our own, we've dismissed them and come up with new ones. They could have been called off? or there was a war a la Baghvad Gita? or they sealed the experiment tube? Maybe they'll come back to reap the harvest? or abort a failed experiment? Maybe they're swift and intervene all the time?

Some abductees report seeing humanlike aliens. Could we be the product of genetic engineering thousands of years ago? Is life propagated around the universe willfully by less than perfect beings?

To me, God is the ultimate source of life, not a conscious being. Is it possible WE are the consciousness of God, and when we die we become the unconsciousness of God? As serviles, we may be further down the food chain in terms of power and ability, but we are no less conscious, no less of GOD. That's where servile rights come in. We can be both the result of alien engineering AND born of God, there's no conflict. God isn't a shaper. Shapers have faults and shouldn't be worshipped or wholly trusted. IF they exist at all.
Posts: 5 | Registered: Saturday, August 7 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5086
Profile Homepage #15
Can anyone tell me why no matter what game of Jeff's it is, someone has to feel the need to transform it into some kind of a debate on ethics and philosophy? ITS A GAME...

[ Wednesday, October 13, 2004 15:15: Message edited by: Rabid Pigs Eating A Wolf ]

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I love stupid people acting smart...
Posts: 53 | Registered: Wednesday, October 13 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4973
Profile #16
But the ethics of the maker of the game certainly manifest themselves in the game itself. Although, yes, it is fun to analyze every aspect of the game

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There are three kinds of people in the world: those who think, those who think they think, and those who would rather die than think.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Thursday, September 16 2004 07:00