What will scare the heck out of McCain

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AuthorTopic: What will scare the heck out of McCain
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #50
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

You do realize he's pandering to the conservatives now that he is at the forefront of the Republican party, don't you?
I see. I didn't realize you could read his mind and tell me which one of his stances on these issues is the real one. Where can I get my ticket to the straigh thought express?

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #51
It's called common sense. He had a moderate voting record. He wants to get votes now, his record has changed very recently. You don't suppose there a connection, do you?

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #52
And you trust that once McCain is president and has no need to pander, he'll go back to moderate.

Wait. Of course he will still have re-election to consider. So once he's in his second term in 2012, he can follow his conscience and be a moderate.

Okay.

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The Noble and Ancient Order of Polaris - We're Not Yet Dead.
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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #53
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

And Kelandon, for someone who doesn't care, you sure do whine a lot.
This is exactly the sort of comment that has you on the brink of banning. Keep it up, sport; then I won't have to listen to you anymore.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #54
McCain is the champion of the GOP because he looks like he is harmle...oh. Just like Bush looked and sounded 8 years ago. Except with McCain there is a record of ineptitude... oh.

So, he's more of the same, possibly with better connections in the military and even less acumen in the diplomatic arena. I imagine he would have a former military man as SoS. As far as his spending cuts, yeah they would be the type that actually screw over the most citizens possible. But, he would have tax cuts, so that's great! More of the same borrow and spend fiscal conservatives which got us into this debt ridden mess.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #55
quote:
Arancaytar:
And you trust that once McCain is president and has no need to pander, he'll go back to moderate.
I never said that. He'll do whatever works for him. Right now, being a conservative is working for him.
quote:
Kelandon:
This is exactly the sort of comment that has you on the brink of banning. Keep it up, sport; then I won't have to listen to you anymore.
Is this what passes for a warning from a moderator these days?

[ Thursday, May 08, 2008 08:36: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Warrior
Member # 15187
Profile Homepage #56
A Moderate is somebody who absorbs and accepts the rational arguments of both the left and the right of what used to be the political spectrum, and ignores the irrational.

Chucky's pandering doesn't comfort me. Pandering did not make either Johnny Swiftboat or Senator Hillarious a Moderate. It made them liars.

And, just because Chucky had the sheer gall to suggest he agreed with our Constitution's declaration against torture (or "enhanced interrogation techniques" as my own x-Governor Willard so delicately tried to redefine it) . . . and just because he denounced Jerry Falwell and Friends before asking for and then embracing their endorsements . . . does not make him a Moderate. It makes him John Kerry.

Lt. Sullust:
Sorry; your link only sent me to a page that demanded that I identify myself. Is there another link?
Posts: 178 | Registered: Saturday, March 8 2008 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #57
quote:
Originally written by Clavicle:

A Moderate is somebody who absorbs and accepts the rational arguments of both the left and the right of what used to be the political spectrum, and ignores the irrational.
That doesn't sound like a moderate to me; that sounds like an extreme rationalist.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #58
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

It's called common sense. He had a moderate voting record. He wants to get votes now, his record has changed very recently. You don't suppose there a connection, do you?
No, that's called the media-supported narrative, or perhaps an affirmation of the conventional wisdom, but it is not common sense. McCain at one time says "A" and a few years later says "Not A". Unless you're a mind-reader, you don't have the slightest idea which of these are his real views. The press generally gives McCain a pass because he's fun dinner company and gives them lots of time to yak it up with him, but that gets us no closer to the truth. And neither does his voting record. If he was a moderate, then his stance against the first Bush tax cuts makes sense (because he favored a more modest tax cut less tilted toward the highest earners), if he's a conservative, then his votes to make the Bush tax cuts permanent in 2006 makes sense. He did both. You assert he is a moderate but offer no proof.

Well, that isn't exactly right, you produce a list that shows he's all over the map in terms of votes. But of course, we already knew that, didn't we? He voted against the tax cuts and then for them. In both cases he repeated standard talking points for his vote, but never offered a reason for his movement from one side of the issue to the other.

You can assert, with no evidence, that he has to do this to pander to the base of the GOP. Some one else can assert that he's revealing his true, conservative, nature. I have no reason to agree with you explanation over anyone else's, because neither one of you can produce evidence for what McCain really thinks.

My own judgement is that McCain doesn't really care about domestic issues and thus is ideologically flexible to saying or voting any way that gains him an advantage. I think that's the case because when it comes to foreign policy, he clearly does have a consistent and coherent political philosophy. A dangerous and lunatic political philosophy based on fighting as much war as possible, but coherent nonetheless.

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #59
When did I claim to know what he was thinking? I was merely stating the facts. He had a moderate voting record. He started running for president again. He changed his voting record. He won the nomination. Put the pieces together however you wish.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #60
Clavicle - Attacks of a personal nature are frowned upon on this site. Despite my distaste for Clinton and McCain, I would appreciate it if you refrained from using cute, but insulting, nicknames in your attempts to belittle them. It can easily be done with actual argument, and I find the names distracting and they detract from the power of your argument.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 15187
Profile Homepage #61
Thuryl:
So, now rational thought is extreme?

...oh, wait . . . you're right, actually. In the U.S.A., rational thought has in fact become not only extreme but also radical.

(EDIT for Salmon): Where's your sense of humor?

[ Thursday, May 08, 2008 09:21: Message edited by: Clavicle ]
Posts: 178 | Registered: Saturday, March 8 2008 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #62
Only people with lower member numbers are allowed to get away with humorous insults. That's how they run things around here.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #63
The link doesn't seem to work any more. I'll edit it out shortly. Either way, my point had nothing to do with McCain. I thought it was odd that in 2004 John Kerry and John Edwards were the 'most liberal'...

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Lt. Sullust
Quaere verum
真実長ガス
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #64
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

When did I claim to know what he was thinking? I was merely stating the facts. He had a moderate voting record. He started running for president again. He changed his voting record. He won the nomination. Put the pieces together however you wish.
Perhaps we should start over: what makes me think John McCain is a moderate? Don't just assert that he is - point to actual policy positions and (most importantly) votes taken in the Senate that reflect his moderate political governance philosophy.

I asserted his reputation as a moderate is a artifact of inconsistency, not moderation. To prove my assertion, I gave you specific votes on taxes, but I could provide others, such as his on-again-off-again environmental record.

Unless you start producing evidence to support your assertions, I think I might have to bring this argument to a close.

EDIT: Gratuitous insult removed. I apologize for my crude behavior.

[ Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:12: Message edited by: Masked Man of Inscrutability ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #65
I think the Democrat race has kept McCain out of the spotlight thus far. I'm sure we'll learn quite a bit in the fall...

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Lt. Sullust
Quaere verum
真実長ガス
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #66
Thanks for reining yourself in, Zorro. For the rest of us, I prescribe a little more restraint on personal attacks and a sense of humor.

—Alorael, can at most see McCain as an ex-moderate. He's either running on a false platform now, and he'll probably have to deliver on it, or he's changed his political stripes. Either way, voting for him as a moderate isn't a good idea.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #67
Zorro: Your examples are fine. They show McCain doesn't stick stalwartly to one side or the other. That seems like a moderate to me, what was your definition?

OOC: I think my posts keep disappearing. That, and in the recent posts section in my profile it says I've posted in the "Social Networking" thread when I clearly haven't. Just thought someone up there might want to know.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #68
Moderates are consistently in the middle. Inconsistent people are on one side and then the other, back and forth. Being moderate isn't necessarily good, and being inconsistent isn't necessarily bad, but they aren't the same thing.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #69
So that's what you're going with? He's not a conservative, not a liberal, not a moderate... he's an inconsistent? Wow, and I thought you guys were stretching it with your definition of politics. I don't know why I bother.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #70
Maybe this will help you:

Inconsistent = Flip-flopper

Or did you miss when McCain stated that the Iraq war was about oil and then changed his mind days later. And other comments he made he says he has no recollection of. Maybe it's just because he's old...

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Lt. Sullust
Quaere verum
真実長ガス
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #71
He said he was talking about the Gulph War. I can see how people would gladly misinterpret his words, however.

And I still don't understand why you can't be a flip-flopper and a moderate. People called Kerry a flip flopper, yet according to that link you posted earlier, he voted liberal more often than anyone else in the Senate. It doesn't seem like being a flip-flopping tells you a whole lot about the politician.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #72
Well then doesn't that take away the credibility of Obama being the most liberal...

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Lt. Sullust
Quaere verum
真実長ガス
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #73
Most politicians do change their minds. That said, McCain has show an unusual number of complete about faces. Personally, I get the impression that he's a pragmatic free thinker who is willing to "fake it till he makes it," recognizing that the potential he would have as POTUS (or whatever) would do more towards advancing his ideals, than steadfastly insisting on them presently. I dunno that I agree with him, but I do think if he ends up as POTUS, he may turn out to be another Sandra Day O'Connor.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
"Slartucker is going to have a cow when he hears about this," Synergy said.
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7488
Profile #74
I hereby interrupt all the bickering in this thread to mention that I've just had a frightening revelation: I'll be able to run for U.S. President in 2012. A scary thought indeed.

[ Thursday, May 08, 2008 14:46: Message edited by: The Mystic ]

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Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.
Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00

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