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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, May 21 2007 20:22
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quote:I think that it's from Beowulf, but it been much longer than Iffy's been alive since I read it. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Monday, May 21 2007 20:24
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I tried looking for that quote, because I figured that I would've remembered that or I'd at least like to see it. I didn't find it. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, May 21 2007 22:02
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Faust is supposed to have studied lots of things. Marlowe's version also whips him through most of what passed then for knowlede in a short soliloquoy. But how precisely did he qualify for his title of Doctor? For that matter, how did anyone, in Faust's day? As to Alas, Theology, perhaps the English translator just needed another foot. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, May 21 2007 23:23
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I think back in Faust's day, anyone who went to a university and completed the program was qualified as a Doctor. As opposed to those that practiced the profession of doctor which just involved knowledge of how to"cure" someone. That's why barbers were doctors and their poles were red and white striped to symbolize their "abilities." Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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La Canaliste
Member # 5563
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 02:24
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With humble deference to Kel... Doctor is mediaeval Latin for "teacher", from Latin docere, to teach. Thus there was no degree of doctorate at that time, but simply the recognition in a Latin-using literate population that the "doctor" had knowledge to share, and teach, to others who wished to learn, or study from him. It's pretty similar to somebody becoming a guru. -------------------- I am a mater of time and how . Deep down, you know you should have voted for Alcritas! Posts: 387 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 04:41
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My favourite translation of that passage (Walter Kaufmann's) actually goes "alas, philosophy" but not "alas, theology": quote: -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Canned
Member # 7704
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 08:08
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Who can you define intelligence Muffin? All i can see is a form of self glory. -------------------- You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how . Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 13:41
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Wikipedia claims that Faust got his degree in 'divinity' — that is, theology — from Heidelberg, in 1509. (So much for Heidelberg, harumph.) Apparently the second degree in canon law, theology or medicine made one a Doctor in the late middle ages, whereas in other subjects one became a Master. Another source I found specifies that this Faust's Heidelberg degree was only a Bachelor's, however. Identifying this historical Faust with the legendary magician is of course conjectural. I expect anyone who could pretend to education could get away with styling themselves Doctor. Goethe's original has 'ach, Philosophie' and 'leider ... Theologie', so both translations seem to be reasonable. Our guy was down on both subjects. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 8030
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 15:02
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I'd like to voice my opinion about this. quote:Sigh...I don't think a degree is a measurement of intelligence (neither is IQ but that's another subject). What it does mean, is that you spent time and money to study the subject, and hopefully earn a higher salary in return. quote:I love that book! -------------------- WWJD? Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 15:26
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I quoted the second half of the 11th line of Beowulf at Aran. I can't say I really love the poem, but it's too much of an ancient epic for people not to read it. And I still apparently have the first big chunk memorized. —Alorael, who learned everything he knows about Old English from Lord of the Fire Lands. Mediocre book, neat language. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 15:51
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What is particular to Beowulf is that it survived. Not many other epic poems have done that, especially those originating within the 10th century. [ Tuesday, May 22, 2007 15:51: Message edited by: Some Slimy Idiot ] -------------------- WWtNSD? Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Tuesday, May 22 2007 23:20
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Since I have to chair a PhD defense today, I feel like offering the hope that a PhD does require a relatively high level of intelligence — unless of course it is just bought from a degree mill. In private universities it's a real issue for a program, whether and how to eject students who may have paid a hundred grand in tuition, but just don't seem to be making the grade. Generally though they bite the bullet and do it, when the case is clear, because in the long run they'll get more students paying those high tuitions if the degree continues to be seen to mean something, than if they get the reputation as a place where you pay your money, do your time, and pick up your diploma. It certainly doesn't certify anyone as a genius, though. Having a PhD is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for being brilliant. Having said all that, the winnowing out phase of graduate school happens well before the final defense of the thesis. If you get that far, it's pretty much impossible to fail. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, May 23 2007 03:44
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Hm. I've only heard of the process of "defending" a doctorate thesis from the Netherlands... is that common elsewhere, too? -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8131
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written Wednesday, May 23 2007 04:05
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You almost always have to defend your thesis to get your PhD as far as I know, the final test to prove your mastery of the topic and whatnot. Posts: 145 | Registered: Sunday, February 18 2007 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, May 23 2007 05:30
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The requirement for formal defense is universal. After all, it's the only way to guarantee that anyone ever reads your thesis. And it's pretty important that doctoral degrees from all over the world are recognized as equivalent, so the procedures are actually very similar in all countries. [ Wednesday, May 23, 2007 05:32: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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La Canaliste
Member # 5563
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written Wednesday, May 23 2007 07:25
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In some countries (eg France) it is customary to defend one's thesis in public, while in others (eg UK) it is a private misery. In some UK universities even the PhD supervisor is excluded, and the student defends in front of the examiners all alone... It is a check that the student is at least acquainted with the contents of the thesis, and can demonstrate that they more or less understand it (to show that the student has not simply presented work performed and written up by some third party). In the UK it is very difficult to fail at the point of defending the thesis: the supervisor should not allow a thesis that is unpassable to be submitted. In general it is also impossible here to pass without some corrections or adjustment being demanded by the examiners: it is a form of machismo on their part. (This can take the form of "correcting" the use of colons or semicolons, if the examiners can't find anything else.) Thus the result is almost always pass with minor revisions or pass with major revisions. -------------------- I am a mater of time and how . Deep down, you know you should have voted for Alcritas! Posts: 387 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, May 23 2007 11:47
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Huh — I guess that really is the main practical purpose of the defence, to catch people who didn't do the work themselves. In most cases a student works closely enough with an advisor that they couldn't get away with hiring a ghost-writer. But there are rare cases of more independent work. And there is the subtler problem that can happen if an advisor is too busy, of a student managing to squeak through by relying too much on collaborators. This I can really see happening, because it can take a lot of patience to let a student take weeks to do something themselves, which you could do yourself in a day. If you only had a day. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, May 23 2007 14:28
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I remember one friend's defense where an examiner fell asleep and when woken said it wasn't his area of interest and went back to sleep. This started a discussion on how many people actually read the dissertation besides the advisor. I did hear of one graduate student that was failed for being universally disliked by her department. It was said that her work was marginal and if she hadn't been so hated she might have been allowed to pass. But since it was a poor job they went after her. [ Wednesday, May 23, 2007 14:28: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |