The Monster from Meech Lake RETURNS!

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Author	Topic: The Monster from Meech Lake RETURNS!
Dintiradan Guardian Member # 6670	written Friday, November 24 2006 12:26 Profile Homepage #0 By Frozen Feet: quote: I don't think spamfests have any real effect to this forum's health. It just makes us seem stupid. What we really need is a deep conversation about religion, science and politics. Then we'd see how stupid we really are. Alright, let's talk politics. This made me nearly fall off my chair yesterday at breakfast. One of the downsides of Crunch Time: you stop staying abreast of politics until you pick up a paper to find that half of it is dedicated to a story that you didn't see coming. By Harper: quote: Mr. Speaker, tomorrow the Bloc Quebecois will present the House with an unusual request that we here at the federal Parliament define the Quebecois nation. As a consequence, with the support of the government and with the support of our party, I will be putting on the Notice Paper later today the following motion. … That this House recognize that the Quebecois form a nation within a united Canada. … Once again, the leader of the Bloc and his separatist friends are not concerned with defining who Quebecers are but rather what they want them to become, a separate country. The separatists do not need the Parliament of Canada to define what is meant by the sociological termination. My preference has been well known. I believe that this is not the job of the federal Parliament. It is the job of the legislature of Quebec, but the Bloc Quebecois has asked us to define this and perhaps that is a good thing, because it reminds us that all Canadians have a say in the future of this country. Having been asked by the Bloc to define the Quebecois, we must take a position. Our position is clear. Do the Quebecois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Quebecois form an independent nation? The answer is no, and the answer will always be no, because Quebecers of all political persuasions, from Cartier and Laurier to Mulroney and Trudeau, have led this country, and millions like them of all political persuasions have helped to build it. With their English- and French-speaking fellow citizens, and people drawn from all nationalities of this earth, they have been part of making this country what it is, the greatest country in the world. To millions more who live in a dangerous and dividing world, this country is a shining example of the harmony and unity to which all peoples are capable and to which all humanity should aspire. I say to my federalist colleagues and I also say to the separatist side that we here will do what we must, what our forefathers have always done to preserve this country, Canada, strong, united, independent and free. So, what say you? What should Quebec be? A 'Distinct Society'? A 'Nation' inside Canada? A 'Nation' outside Canada? Or - dare I say - a 'Province'? (Those poor unfortunate souls out there who don't follow Canadian politics can answer on the principle of whether or not an ethnic group has the right to create an independent nation.) -------------------- (Hey, if Salmon can do it, so can I.) Poll Information This poll contains 1 question(s). 9 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=sjupUVjGVIpE"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=sjupUVjGVIpE"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window Posts: 1509 \| Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Friday, November 24 2006 13:30 Profile Homepage #1 I'm leaning towards "Distinct Society"... but mostly because I don't know enough about what's going on. "Non-independent nation within a unified nation?" That confuses me... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, November 24 2006 14:06 Profile Homepage #2 I say Canada should give the French a taste of their own medicine and set Quebec up like occupied Algeria. I'm talking checkpoints, regular mountie inspections, and a special section of the capital city where all French are forced to live called the Quebecasbah. Worst case scenario is a Battle of Algiers situation where the French attack local hockey rinks and the Canadians retaliate by bombing croissant factories. Hilarity ensues. I'm a worldwide government kind of guy myself, so yet another culture demanding autonomy is a step backwards in my book. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Dintiradan Guardian Member # 6670	written Friday, November 24 2006 15:01 Profile Homepage #3 Gah. Seems that I jumped the gun. Apparently, the Bloc will be voting for the motion, despite early remarks from some members. So it's settled, then? Not a chance. No way these worms are going back into the can. It's like clockwork: the minute giving greater independence to Quebec is brought up, another group ensures that it is heard. Three guesses who. White feather, anyone? -------------------- Here's hoping Calgary becomes a city-state. Posts: 1509 \| Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Garrison Agent Member # 2820	written Friday, November 24 2006 15:42 Profile #4 quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: I'm a worldwide government kind of guy myself, so yet another culture demanding autonomy is a step backwards in my book. Whose government would you like to rule the world today? And no, the Tullegolite Empire is not a legitimate answer. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 \| Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, November 24 2006 15:56 Profile Homepage #5 "Whose government?" is an easy question. If a dictatorship is out of the question, a United Kingdom style parliamentary democracy would seem to be the most efficient and representative government, the one the most people would not have a problem with. I'd go for that. The more difficult question is "whose culture?" There are too many that would rather have either a religious leader in power or who would rather not have anything to do with an ethnic group that is not their own. Those weak fools are the true hurdles to forming a world government. Certain Quebecish people fit into this catagory. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Garrison Agent Member # 2820	written Friday, November 24 2006 17:33 Profile #6 A dictatorship is not out of the question. A representative government would be messy on the world scale. There would be thousands of state-type government units within this giant monolith, and their competing interests would gridlock the whole system. A dictatorship, or something similar, has the advantage of being able to trample over the fair representation rights of a region or any other part of government. The downside is of course rebellion. So I refine my questions to the following: If you had to choose, which country should rule the world? Which person should have the highest position in this world government (other than yourself)? [ Friday, November 24, 2006 23:00: Message edited by: Garrison ] -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 \| Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, November 24 2006 18:04 Profile Homepage #7 The reason I chose the United Kingdom's government was because the system is unitary, meaning the central government has the right to dissolve local governments at will. This would be absolutely necessary for a worldwide government to be effective. Allowing states or provinces or anything to exit gives hope for independence, and that can not be allowed. If it's a dictatorship, even better. Which country should rule the world? Probably someone neutral like Switzerland or Sweden. However, I would not rule out the United States. People may hate us now, but I think the US has the greatest potential for assimilating other cultures into its own. Once you've had MTV, Starbucks, McDonald's, the Internet and mini-malls, there really is no going back. The leader? Easy... Bill Clinton. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jewels Agent Member # 3364	written Friday, November 24 2006 19:18 Profile Homepage #8 quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: The leader? Easy... Bill Clinton. Blech! Been there, done that, including the interns. How about Arnold? Picture of strentgh, relatively popular, not too left, not too right, not completely 'American', and able to beat up anyone who disagrees with him. Sounds like a 'shoo in' to me. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Friday, November 24 2006 21:12 Profile Homepage #9 I think Bill Clinton would work... I miss him being in office. Schwarzenegger would be a horrible idea... the world would never live it down. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, November 24 2006 22:05 Profile Homepage #10 You can hate him all you want, but the man was a peacemaker. Clinton is probably the only guy currently living who could resolve problems in the Middle East if given a bit more time. People like him, he’s got an aura of personality. I think the two most important ability of someone in power are being charismatic, and, in case of idiocy, being about to surround yourself with smart people. Clinton is no fool, and he’s charming to boot, what more could you ask for in a ruler? At French President Mitterand's funeral, his wife attended, but so did his publicly known mistress. In France, it is acknowledged that people in power will be tempted to screw around on their wives, and many just accept the fact. Keep in mind that America was founded by prudes. What Clinton did was wrong, but it doesn’t make him any less of a leader. As for Schwarzenegger, I like the guy, but he has not shown that he is an effective politician yet. Strangely, the people seem to like him, but they don't support his policies. He really is an anomaly. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Garrison Agent Member # 2820	written Friday, November 24 2006 23:13 Profile #11 Schwarzenegger's governorship entertains me, but it is only more evidence of the growing power of the Hollywood media to influence people in every way. This type of appeal to popularity instead of policy is exactly why presidential elections were not originally set up to allow the American people at large to vote for the office. But he has excellent aides and advisers and hasn't made any errors large enough to lose him the vote, so he's not the worst thing imaginable. Seriously though, if someone like Robin Williams were elected president, I think I'd feint. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 \| Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Saturday, November 25 2006 00:57 Profile Homepage #12 The internet is full of insinuations of a Stewart/Colbert ticket in 2008. I am only passingly familiar with their shows, but I think it would be interesting to have a country run by political talking heads with a sense of humor. They'd need rather strong cabinets, of course, but it's better to have people who know just how stupid people are likely to be than someone with boundless faith in those who don't deserve it. Clinton has more going for him as world leader, too. As I've already said (and been sigged), war and violence would end if we all had each other's babies. Clinton did his part. Now it's our turn to do ours. —Alorael, who could see a problem with the way Clinton conducted his literal affairs if there were anything illegal about it. Slimy, yes. Underhanded, yes. Despicable or illegal? No. Since when did two consenting adults become a national emergency? [ Saturday, November 25, 2006 01:00: Message edited by: Athoraal ] Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Saturday, November 25 2006 01:16 Profile Homepage #13 quote: Originally written by Garrison: Seriously though, if someone like Robin Williams were elected president, I think I'd feint. You'd only feint? I think I'd actually hit the guy. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, November 25 2006 09:55 Profile Homepage #14 Bad Thuryl. :P I heartily agree with Alorael... quite often, I think that Stewart and Colbert know more about what's going on than most elected officials themselves do. And when they don't know what's going on, they admit it. Granted, that could change a bit if they were actually elected, but the promise of a change of pace would be enough to get them my vote. I mean, they'd have my vote anyway, but that would just solidify my position. Anyway, Clinton for world dictator in 2010! -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Garrison Agent Member # 2820	written Saturday, November 25 2006 10:25 Profile #15 The voter turnout amongst young adults would skyrocket if they ran for president. I think with a strong cabinet they could run domestic affairs reasonably well, but I don't know how well they'd manage delicate foreign interactions. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 \| Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Saturday, November 25 2006 11:39 Profile Homepage #16 Refreshingly. —Alorael, who would just pray that their disarming charm would go a long way towards actually disarming potential foes. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Saturday, November 25 2006 15:48 Profile Homepage #17 quote: Ephesos: Anyway, Clinton for world dictator in 2010! How dare you agree with me? You're making it very difficult for me to turn this thread into a flame war! -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Garrison Agent Member # 2820	written Saturday, November 25 2006 19:27 Profile #18 Your insatiable appetite for flame wars is even greater than the determination of the Quebec separatists. I'm just going to be stupid now and ask what's so bad about being a "province." I'm too lazy to look it up, but I thought Canada was made up of provinces. shields himself from mounties' attacks -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 \| Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, November 25 2006 20:09 Profile Homepage #19 Yeah, why is Quebec unhappy about just being a province? quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: You're making it very difficult for me to turn this thread into a flame war! I agree. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Saturday, November 25 2006 20:34 Profile Homepage #20 quote: Ephesos: I agree. Rrr... Canada should do what the United States did when certain states wanted to secede from the union... burn them to the ground. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Garrison Agent Member # 2820	written Saturday, November 25 2006 21:10 Profile #21 ...and then spend decades in Reconstruction while discrimination persists. Really, I can't imagine why the government doesn't decry this. An independence movement of a region in the middle of the country seems like a threatening situation to me. [ Saturday, November 25, 2006 21:14: Message edited by: Garrison ] -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 \| Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Saturday, November 25 2006 21:15 Profile Homepage #22 Originally by Garrison: quote: ...and then spend decades in Reconstruction while discrimination persists. No, no, you've got it all wrong. You're supposed to do this: Originally by Emperor Tullegolar: quote: Canada should do what the United States did when certain states wanted to secede from the union... burn them to the ground. What a great idea! Dikiyoba agrees. Edit: Added quote. [ Saturday, November 25, 2006 21:18: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ] Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Tyranicus Law Bringer Member # 6489	written Saturday, November 25 2006 21:34 Profile Homepage #23 If Québec actually does succeed in seceding, what will happen to the Maritime provinces? The biggest problem with Clinton was not that he screwed around, but that he lied about it. -------------------- "You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus Spiderweb Chat Room Avernum RP • Summaries • OoC • Roster Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 1556 \| Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, November 26 2006 08:19 Profile Homepage #24 Alright everybody, let's go torch Quebec. :D quote: Originally written by Tyranicus: The biggest problem with Clinton was not that he screwed around, but that he lied about it. Still, that had no bearing on his political performance in office, so I for one am willing to let it go. Hillary probably isn't, but she's probably the only one with a good reason to object, anyway. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00