The Monster from Meech Lake RETURNS!

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AuthorTopic: The Monster from Meech Lake RETURNS!
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #25
The principle of lying to the American public to save no one but yourself is far worse than screwing around when you're the president. Hardliners would shriek at the display of moral depravity, but as ET pointed out earlier, lots of leaders do that anyway.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 3364
Profile Homepage #26
quote:
Originally written by Tyranicus:

The biggest problem with Clinton was not that he screwed around, but that he lied about it.
And this is my problem with him, too. Yes he's charming and yes he's a peacemaker but I can't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. Lying about his affair is to be expected, but he lied about it under oath. If he can lie so easily when it's a crime, ain't nothing gonna stop him from lying any other time about more important things. His charming way with words doesn't help him in this argument. It just means he's better at making people believe his lies longer.

He became a fool when he argued about what the deffinition of 'is' is.

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"Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05

"Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #27
I can't say I'm happy about his perjury, but I can also forgive it. Yes, he lied under oath, but his lie was about a personal matter that quite frankly was of no importance to the American public. There was no reason for us to know about it and no real reason for the court to be fixating on it.

Clinton didn't lie about anything important, not even by omission.

—Alorael, who wishes the same could be said for this administration. The best you can say is that all the intelligence gathering is soon going to make it impossible for anyone else to lie and get away with it, white lies included.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #28
I agree. I always think it's rather silly when politicians are forced to resign because of an extra-marital affair. The argument seems to be, if they can't behave honestly towards their wife then they can't behave honestly when governing the country/city/etc. This is a fallacy. Maybe in an ideal world honesty would equate to absolute truthfulness in all things, but down here in the real world, people do not behave identically at home and at work. One's personal and professional lives need not even overlap, let alone coincide.

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"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #29
The Monster from Meech Lake look an awful lot like Bill Clinton at the moment.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #30
You guys don't seem to understand that the ability to lie is an valuable and important ability in a world leader. You don't even want to know half the crap that goes on behind closed doors, so I am grateful for a leader that is able to lie even under pressure.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #31
I think that NJ takes the cake with McGreevy's resignation ... look it up if you don't know.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #32
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

You guys don't seem to understand that the ability to lie is an valuable and important ability in a world leader. You don't even want to know half the crap that goes on behind closed doors, so I am grateful for a leader that is able to lie even under pressure.
If you don't know what goes on, how do you know that you don't want to know it?

If you mean that you know, we don't, and you think we shouldn't, well...

IMAGE(http://i.askask.com/2004/07/infocus_4805.jpg)

[ Monday, November 27, 2006 05:54: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #33
Update, for those who care. I could write loads, but good ol' Max Pointy says it all for me:
quote:
That the Québécois form a nation within a united Canada... they've been telling us this is just words, that it's just symbolism, and that it's merely a motion. Well, words are what we live by. They are the foundational marble of our intellectual, moral and civic existence. Some of them – home, country, nation – constitute the deepest meaning in our lives.

As for symbols, well, the flag is a symbol. Symbols are extremely powerful. They are concentrated meaning, the emblems of our deepest common passions. And as for it being merely a motion, the Parliament of the nation of Canada is the ultimate deliberative and legislative body of the nation of Canada, a motion passed with all-party approval in that Parliament specifying one group of citizens, the Québécois, as a nation, well, that's the highest imprimatur any words about Canada can have.

So trying to brush off as just words the idea of the House of Commons recognizing the Québécois as a nation within Canada is absurd.

The Commons hasn't done anything as significant in years. This is of the ultimate importance. It is changing the grounds on which we, all of us, understand our idea of Canadian citizenship, and the idea of the one nation to which we, all of us, give our fealty.

How important?

Today a minister, Michael Chong resigned. By the way, good for him. It's refreshing to see so dignified a stand on a matter of principle and a politician willing to lose cabinet rank because he thinks something is fundamentally wrong. Mr. Chong deserves respectful credit.

The motion itself is a train of mischief and ambiguity as is the entire concept of nominating subsets of Canadians based on their ethnicity or historical associations or geographical boundaries or constitutional past — Newfoundland would be an example — as nations in their own right. But it is particularly mischievous and ambiguous when it sets the Québécois as the designated category for nation status.

What is the Parliament of Canada doing declaring the Québécois a nation? Has that not been the principal aim of the Parti québécois and the Bloc, the separatists, since their formation? The idea behind this motion has been a mischief since the train was put on the track by Michael Ignatieff in his leadership bid, and as it gained momentum with the Bloc's embrace and Stephen Harper's too-clever response last week, it has become more divisive by the day, igniting the call now by the premier of British Columbia to go one more step and incorporate all aboriginal peoples in another group nation.

There's no reason to stop there. It sets a division within Quebec — who are the Québécois? All Quebecers? Some? French-speaking people across the country, are they part of this new nation too? And it will spark division outside Quebec.

Why not a Ukrainian nation?

A nation of Labrador?

An Alberta nation?

The House of Commons, the House of Commons of Canada, should be underlining only one nation, Canada. We are all its citizens regardless of height, colour, province, language, history, religion or politics. Canada is the nation, and the biggest quarrel I have with this motion tonight is that our parliamentarians seem to have the courage to declare a bit, a slice, a portion of the country a nation when they are timid about asserting and constantly asserting and proudly asserting that Canada is the nation, and all Canadians now are already and deeply a part of it. But I forgot, it's only words. For "The National", I'm Rex Murphy.
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All right, who voted FLQ?
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #34
"Every nation has the right to self-determination, including complete separation." - Comrade Lenin

It seems Canada decided to follow the proud tradition of USSR, Yugoslavia, etc. As Dintiradan's article correctly pointed out, once a certain ethnicity-dominated region gets special status, all other ethnicities demand the same status. Then you come to minorities within the special region demanding special status for themselves, etc. Eventually you end up with about one civil war per two ethnicities. (At least that was the ratio during/after collapse of USSR and Yugoslavia.)

(I am not saying Canada will collapse into a civil war any time soon, but that's where this path of ultra-nationalism within a multi-national country eventually leads.)

[ Wednesday, November 29, 2006 09:11: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00

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