US and Sudan

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AuthorTopic: US and Sudan
moonear
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
 written Thursday, April 27 2006 10:38 Profile #0
Sudan is an ugly spot right about now. What is your counrty doing about it and what are you doing to move your countries policies?

Be like the US (hooray) and get it called genocide. Be like the (US) and work with an international community to pursue war crimes (see link)

http://www.sudantribune.com/article.php3?id_article=15298

I have advocated with my government representatives for a political statement and to fund resources for peacekeeping. I would look for you to do the same. By small steps we as an international community can show brotherhood with those who are suffering.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Thursday, April 27 2006 10:46 Profile #1
Any muslim theocracy is a potential enemy. I don't know how long western countries can deal with them, but in Israel there are no second chances (except amongst the idiots in charge). One threat and you become what the public views as the enemy.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
WiKiSpidweb
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
 written Thursday, April 27 2006 12:03 Profile Homepage #2
We had a week long event to raise awareness about darfur on campus at UCF. Some students camped outside in a makeshift refugee camp for the whole week. I performed at a awareness concert at the end of the week. Unfortunately, grassroots movements like this are viewed with indifference by many politicians.

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"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein
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Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00
The Immortal
BANNED
Member # 4
 written Thursday, April 27 2006 14:29 Profile Homepage #3
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

Any theocracy is a potential enemy. I don't know how long western countries can deal with them, but in Israel there are no second chances (except amongst the idiots in charge). One threat and you become what the public views as the enemy.
FYT.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Grignard
Apprentice
Member # 3438
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 06:56 Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by Wild Kinky Slugs:

We had a week long event to raise awareness about darfur on campus at UCF. Some students camped outside in a makeshift refugee camp for the whole week. I performed at a awareness concert at the end of the week. Unfortunately, grassroots movements like this are viewed with indifference by many politicians.
I view it with indifference too. A bunch of upper middle class american liberal kids acting like they know something about real suffering. Its actually very funny.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Saturday, September 6 2003 07:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 07:00 Profile #5
@TM: That's wrong. Either remove the Israel statement or reinsert the word muslim.

[ Sunday, April 30, 2006 07:02: Message edited by: radix malorum est cupiditas ]

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 08:03 Profile Homepage #6
Do muslim theocracies have any less reason to be pissed off at how they've been treated by others than Israel does? Come to think of it, that's probably not a good direction for this thread to head in...

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 08:27 Profile #7
quote:
Originally written by Grignard:

I view it with indifference too. A bunch of upper middle class american liberal kids acting like they know something about real suffering. Its actually very funny.
Regardless of whether we've ever experienced it or not, is is wrong to protest against it?

(And would a bunch of upper middle class american conservative kids know any more about suffering?)

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Grignard
Apprentice
Member # 3438
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 11:25 Profile #8
quote:
Originally written by I Would Have Been Your Daddy:

quote:
Originally written by Grignard:

I view it with indifference too. A bunch of upper middle class american liberal kids acting like they know something about real suffering. Its actually very funny.
Regardless of whether we've ever experienced it or not, is is wrong to protest against it?

(And would a bunch of upper middle class american conservative kids know any more about suffering?)
Probably not, but this is the typical university protest scene, at least in my experience. Very possibly a public health hazard as well. There are lots of good reasons not to do this.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Saturday, September 6 2003 07:00
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 14:35 Profile #9
Eh? Protesting is a public health hazard? Please explain.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Grignard
Apprentice
Member # 3438
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 17:15 Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by I Would Have Been Your Daddy:

Eh? Protesting is a public health hazard? Please explain.
Because you said they made a makeshift refugee camp. This is similar to the sort of civil disobedience that has invaded college campuses since the mid 60's. Simulating a refugee camp brings along the sort of problems that a real refugee camp entails, such as hygiene and general enforcement of law and order.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Saturday, September 6 2003 07:00
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 17:41 Profile Homepage #11
*facepalm*

Civil disobedience is about the last thing anyone has to be worried about -- at least, it is when it's conducted by clueless, overprivileged college students who love to protest as long as it doesn't involve actual sacrifice on their part.

As for the health issues -- given the amount of scholarly research that has documented the pathogenic nature of dorms, that's kind of ironic.

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
WiKiSpidweb
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 18:06 Profile Homepage #12
quote:
I view it with indifference too. A bunch of upper middle class american liberal kids acting like they know something about real suffering. Its actually very funny.
I wouldn't know, being a conservative myself. And it is entirely possible for middle class kids to know about suffering. I spent a summer volunteering at a narcotics rehab center and spent other summers volunteering at a hospital. I've seen suffering. Perhaps not on the scale of what the Sudanese see, but that doesn't make my efforts less valid. If you apply your statement to it's logical end, you would be suggesting that only poor people should try to do anything about world poverty.

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"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein
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Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Sunday, April 30 2006 19:10 Profile #13
quote:
Originally written by Strontium:

Sudan is an ugly spot right about now. What is your counrty doing about it and what are you doing to move your countries policies?

Be like the US (hooray) and get it called genocide. Be like the (US) and work with an international community to pursue war crimes (see link)

http://www.sudantribune.com/article.php3?id_article=15298

I have advocated with my government representatives for a political statement and to fund resources for peacekeeping. I would look for you to do the same. By small steps we as an international community can show brotherhood with those who are suffering.
Don't be like the US in continuously undermining the only international bodies capable of credibly responding to crimes against humanity, though.

The American right's war against the UN is the most sickening thing I have seen in my lifetime, and 1987-2006 has been quite something.

Let's back the ICJ and reduce discretion in UN funding and military aid. Disasters like Rwanda happened as the US stood silent, effectively hobbling the international community. We are the strongest; we owe something to the weakest.

quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

Any muslim theocracy is a potential enemy. I don't know how long western countries can deal with them, but in Israel there are no second chances (except amongst the idiots in charge). One threat and you become what the public views as the enemy.
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

@TM: That's wrong. Either remove the Israel statement or reinsert the word muslim.
So a Muslim theocracy is a potential enemy, but a Jewish theocracy is peachy-keen? :P

Seriously, I don't see the difference between a Muslim theocracy and any other kind. Christian theocracies, in their heyday, put a lot of people to the sword. Even the Buddhists are jackasses when they hold a state monopoly on truth.

Muslims aren't the enemy (in spite of your sterling efforts - thanks for pissing the entire Arab world off at the only Western country that had yet to do them specific wrong, Israel! Best friends forever.) . The enemy is wrath, the attitude that there are no second chances. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and the US doesn't have the firepower to take the entire Earth. As much as we might seem to want to.

What do you think of Turkey, while I've got your ear? Can we trust them?

quote:
Originally written by Grignard:

Because you said they made a makeshift refugee camp. This is similar to the sort of civil disobedience that has invaded college campuses since the mid 60's. Simulating a refugee camp brings along the sort of problems that a real refugee camp entails, such as hygiene and general enforcement of law and order.
ROLL BACK ROOSEVELT

[ Sunday, April 30, 2006 19:19: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, May 1 2006 00:49 Profile #14
quote:
Originally written by Grignard:

Because you said they made a makeshift refugee camp. This is similar to the sort of civil disobedience that has invaded college campuses since the mid 60's. Simulating a refugee camp brings along the sort of problems that a real refugee camp entails, such as hygiene and general enforcement of law and order.
So, according to you, people shouldn't protest a genocide (or civil war or whatever it's oficially called) because it might cause them health problems?

And this is from the guy who scorned college kids for not knowing anything about suffering.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Monday, May 1 2006 04:54 Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

Any muslim theocracy is a potential enemy. I don't know how long western countries can deal with them, but in Israel there are no second chances (except amongst the idiots in charge). One threat and you become what the public views as the enemy.
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

@TM: That's wrong. Either remove the Israel statement or reinsert the word muslim.
So a Muslim theocracy is a potential enemy, but a Jewish theocracy is peachy-keen? :P

Seriously, I don't see the difference between a Muslim theocracy and any other kind. Christian theocracies, in their heyday, put a lot of people to the sword. Even the Buddhists are jackasses when they hold a state monopoly on truth.

Muslims aren't the enemy (in spite of your sterling efforts - thanks for pissing the entire Arab world off at the only Western country that had yet to do them specific wrong, Israel! Best friends forever.) . The enemy is wrath, the attitude that there are no second chances. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and the US doesn't have the firepower to take the entire Earth. As much as we might seem to want to.

What do you think of Turkey, while I've got your ear? Can we trust them?
In case you failed to get it, even though you quoted the post this was written in, I was talking from the Israeli standpoint. When surrounded on all sides by enemies, when any of them make a move you must respond. Anything other than that means death.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Monday, May 1 2006 12:38 Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

When surrounded on all sides by enemies, when any of them make a move you must respond. Anything other than that means death.
Part of the complaint, Infernal, was that that kind of attitude (on the part of everyone involved, not just Israel) is a big part of what generates the conflict. Personally, I'm not convinced of the logic of what I've quoted. I'm open to being convinced, but you'd need to explain how "anything" else would lead to death...

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, May 1 2006 12:43 Profile #17
No one is going to out-of-the-blue destroy Israel. They might want to, sure, but the people at the top didn't get there by being insane enough to actually try.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:08 Profile #18
quote:
Originally written by $ v. #:

I'm open to being convinced, but you'd need to explain how "anything" else would lead to death...
Apparently you've never been in a real fight before. Though I haven't faced death, losing those is not pleasent and the only way to avoid excessive physical injury is to win.
quote:
Originally written by I Would Have Been Your Daddy:

No one is going to out-of-the-blue destroy Israel. They might want to, sure, but the people at the top didn't get there by being insane enough to actually try.
Please tell me you do not actually beleive what you just wrote. Please tell me you are just playing some kind of devil's advocate. Do hundreds of speeches from political and religious leaders from as far away as western Europe and both Americas mean absolutely nothing? Are you telling me I'm just imagining the attacks that come on a regular basis? Hell, it's almost as if they have some kind of schedule, the suicide bombings are that frequent.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:35 Profile #19
I mean the countries and their leaders. The muslim theocracies you refrenced. They're not about to declare war.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:39 Profile #20
No, but they're the ones that fund and fuel the underground war. Also known as the suicide bombers.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:42 Profile Homepage #21
quote:
Originally written by I Would Have Been Your Daddy:

I mean the countries and their leaders. The muslim theocracies you refrenced. They're not about to declare war.
In case you were not aware, most of them are officially at war with Israel already. And had been at war with Israel since 1948. Egypt and Jordan are the only two Arab countries that signed peace with Israel and Egyptian president who did this was assasinated when he returned home.

So I guess you are technically correct: they can't declare war on Israel, because that's kind of hard to do when you are already at war.

[ Monday, May 01, 2006 13:45: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:47 Profile Homepage #22
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

quote:
Originally written by $ v. #:

I'm open to being convinced, but you'd need to explain how "anything" else would lead to death...
Apparently you've never been in a real fight before. Though I haven't faced death, losing those is not pleasent and the only way to avoid excessive physical injury is to win.
Um, a country that is fighting with its neighbors is not the same situation as a fistfight. AT ALL.

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:49 Profile #23
quote:
Originally written by $ v. #:

Um, a country that is fighting with its neighbors is not the same situation as a fistfight. AT ALL.
Please explain this to me. I'm having difficulty understanding what you're saying here.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, May 1 2006 13:49 Profile #24
Okay, I'm wrong on that point.

What I'm arguing against is that doing anything else results in instant loss. Israel's lasted for quite a while, and it's not going under overnight.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00

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