Which spiderweb software game is best?

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AuthorTopic: Which spiderweb software game is best?
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #25
If we're considering future potential — "Which is a better buy if you're going to be a part of the community for a while?" — then BoA wins.
I disagree. Evidence has shown that the community has shrunk drastically- Al's getting a career, Stareye's getting more involved with work, Creator not having access to a computer, BB going off to (supposedly) work with NWN, Drizzt having a child, etc... BoE was already bound to hit a brick wall before BoA came out, but with BoA being so diffiult to learn, it certainly doesn't help the new people-- who at this point are direly needed-- to acclamate themselves to the new medium.

Which is, I suppose, why I object so strongly to this:

BoA has potential, but we haven't come remotely close to matching what BoE did with its (supposedly) more limited potential. At that point, saying that BoA is the better game is like saying that a DVD is a better medium for storing a movie than a VHS tape: True, but it is only a medium.
This argument assumes some sort of mythical "ideal scenario" that does not exist in either medium. We have not hit the "ceiling" in BoE, nor have we hit it in BoA. But ultimately, at the rate we're going, the extent of our progress with BoA will not come close to matching BoE.

I don't care about the abstract potentials of the medium. Point is, not only have we not reached it, we haven't reached BoE, we haven't reached where it was at this point in time, and it looks like we aren't ever going to. And until this prospect changes, even the theoretical argument is rather worthless.

Plus, BoA is fun for an editor, but wholly worthless without scenarios.

Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #26
What about this analogy?

"At that point, saying that BoA is the better game is like saying that a videodisc is a better medium for storing video than a VHS tape."

[ Tuesday, April 11, 2006 05:42: Message edited by: Good-Looks the Playboy ]

Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Member # 7019
Profile #27
My vote went to BoE due to what has already been said, which is that so much more time and energy has been put into it by the community to make it a superior game. Assuming BoA finds a dedicated group that regularly produces scenarios it will in time meet it's potential.

A2 was my favorite in the trilogy, with A1 following close behind. I found G1 to be far more interesting and enjoyable than the other Geneforge games, but I'll resist going into that rant. I am, however, astonished that anyone would pick A4 as the "best" game.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Tuesday, April 11 2006 07:00
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Profile Homepage #28
May I be the first to welcome Daisy to the fray!

Leave your sanity at the door, mind not the fluffy turtles, avoid the tentacles, etc., etc.

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I think.

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What's Your Destiny?

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All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure.
Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #29
Originally written by Butt Paladin:

Creator not having access to a computer...
It's more the career thing. I have a computer now, but working 50 hours a week kind of sucks the creative energy away.

And, uh, BoE rocks BoA's socks off.

[ Tuesday, April 11, 2006 14:53: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 932
Profile #30
I can't believe nobody voted for Avernum 1, let alone that anybody voted for Avernum 4.

That being said, I voted for Avernum 2. Nethergate would have had my vote had it been longer. I like that lil' game, but it just doesn't have the replayability of other Spiderweb games, even when you do factor both sides into the equation.
Posts: 215 | Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00
Member # 3171
Profile Homepage #31
Yea, I would have voted for A1 (I voted for A2) if I had a second vote. But theres no way that I'd vote A1 over A2 and since I only had one vote that took it away.
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #32
By TM:
but with BoA being so diffiult to learn
Really? Out of all the other game editors I've tinkered with (non-SpidWeb), BoA is the easiest and the most flexible. If BoE is even easier, I'm beginning to see why you like it so much.

Oh well. My frugal Dutch heritage dictates that I use the game I've bought instead of shelling out money for another one.

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!
- The French (Quest for the Holy Grail)
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Member # 5410
Profile #33
the Avernum/Exile debate reminds me of previous debates. It seems those that started with Exile continue to prefer it while those that started with Avernum prefer it. I am in the latter camp. Played A1 and A2 then tried Exile and chose to stay with the comfort of Avernum. I much prefer the graphics and final appearance and for me that is an important element to the story being told. BoE does have some nice scenarios but I won't be returning any time soon.

[ Wednesday, April 12, 2006 07:08: Message edited by: Kurchatovium ]

"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #34
BoA requires scripting in something like a programming language. BoE requires absolutely no scripting whatsoever. All you have to input is text, SDFs (think variable), and occasionally monsters or items.

—Alorael, who thinks BoA would do better if it had a BoE-like interface that hid the majority of the simple scripting. People are probably frightened away by the complexity before they learn that scripting isn't impossible.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
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Profile #35
Originally written by Alorael Seven:

BoA would do better if it had a BoE-like interface that hid the majority of the simple scripting. People are probably frightened away by the complexity before they learn that scripting isn't impossible.

Words of gold. I personally have a mortal fear of any programming system that involves actually typing stuff. I'm amazed at what you can do in BOA but have not gotten the editor because of Avernumscript. Jeff would gain many more customers if he made the interface resemble BOE more, IMO.

But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5969
Profile #36
You're right about this loyalty thing (edit: whoever said that… a while ago…). I started with Escape from the Pit and didn't know Avernum (or Exile 2 or 3 or anything else) existed until less than a year ago.
I like the talking better on Exile, for one thing. With Avernum, you have to cycle through a conversation, remembering what you said, to get back to a particular thing that you want to talk about next, whereas on Exile you just type the same 4 letters in again (or hit Back, on Exile 3).
Avernum has more quests, which is always good, but Exile wins IMO. You can also have six characters. My favourite story line is also Exile/Avernum 1. I'm not usually a big fan of sequels.

–The only person to vote for Exile 1. *preens*

[ Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:21: Message edited by: Erika Maroonmark ]

A C, an E-flat, and a G walk into the Tower of the Magi.
Ambrin walks up to them and says, "Hey! It's the Triad!"
Kelner snorts and says, "Pretty minor Triad if you ask me."
Posts: 242 | Registered: Thursday, June 16 2005 07:00
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Profile Homepage #37
i prefer a4 but looks like a defintie a2 once agaion :rolleyes:
Posts: 80 | Registered: Wednesday, March 29 2006 08:00
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #38
Hmmm... why are so many people afraid of scripting? (Scratches head, then remembers enrolling in the CompSci department.)

At my university, we have a program called ScriptEase (hee hee), used in a computer gaming course (NWN based). Over the summer, I could make a simple script producer like it that does the basics (scenario exit, SDFs, dialog, etc.). The problem would be the language. I don't learn C until next year, so it would probably be Perl. Unless anyone more skilled than I wants to tackle this, I can do it after I finish my scenario and A4.

EDIT: Omitting the definite article in a key place can make a confusing paragraph.

I will instruct my Legions of Terror to attack the hero en masse, instead of standing around waiting while members break off and attack one or two at a time.

[ Friday, April 14, 2006 12:29: Message edited by: Dintiradan ]
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00