Physics, and a dumb teacher

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Author	Topic: Physics, and a dumb teacher
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Sunday, February 19 2006 01:44 Profile Homepage #25 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: Thralni, since you seem to need your own personal memo: I WASN'T RESPONDING TO YOU. Jeez! NO NEED TO SHOUT! I thought you were trying to help me, and to be perfectly frank, I don't see that that message was directed at Ben. To whome where you responding then? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, February 19 2006 02:04 Profile Homepage #26 quote: Originally written by Ephesos: Heck, KE=(1/2)m(v^2) is arcane enough... how often will any of us need that in real life? That's what he was responding to, Thralni. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Lt. Sullust Shaper Member # 32	written Sunday, February 19 2006 07:54 Profile #27 Just a small revision... quote: Originally written by 7 per day keep the doctor away.: Biology is a subset of chemistry and chemistry is a subset of physics and physics is a subset of mathematics. If you understand mathematics you understand everything! It just takes a little work to get there from fundamental principles. -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Sunday, February 19 2006 09:32 Profile Homepage #28 Physics involves a lot of mathematics, but is it a subset? Math doesn't necessarily equip you with any of those fundamental principles you need to eventually determine the proper care and feeding of a paramecium. —Alorael, who thinks Kel was upset because a certain someone else who shall go unnamed made the same mistake in thinking he was responding to Thralni. Kel pointed out that he wasn't, and then Thralni complained. Oops. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Sunday, February 19 2006 11:05 Profile Homepage #29 Well, if Thralni knew the math behind the physics equation, he wouldn't wonder how the equation was formed. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, February 19 2006 11:58 Profile Homepage #30 quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Well, if Thralni knew the math behind the physics equation, he wouldn't wonder how the equation was formed. Dikiyoba. And yet it might become even more confusing as a result. I've found that looking at the derivations of some of the equations used in chemistry and physics (Schrödinger's comes to mind) just leaves me with a pounding headache, wondering where the heck they pulled the numbers from. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Sunday, February 19 2006 12:25 Profile Homepage #31 So, mathematics isn't the solution to everything. There must still be something that mathematics is a subset of. Hmmm... Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Sunday, February 19 2006 15:20 Profile Homepage #32 The world around us. Anyway, I was just going to say that I believe the mathematical derivations of your equation have already been given. What other explanation is needed? -------------------- -ben4808 Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Dintiradan Guardian Member # 6670	written Sunday, February 19 2006 15:34 Profile Homepage #33 Thralni, I find it strange that your teacher didn't even mention that the formula could be found empirically. I think you would have enjoyed my physics prof more: after giving a rapid-fire introduction to specific relativity, she declared it to be a martini moment. She then consumed a martini and stated that the problem had become much clearer. Fun class. -------------------- There once was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light She left one day In a relative way And returned the previous night Posts: 1509 \| Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Lt. Sullust Shaper Member # 32	written Sunday, February 19 2006 15:42 Profile #34 Some of the times the mathematical reasoning behind the physics comes after the physics itself. The numbers are generally arrived at by good intuition and repeated testing. -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Sunday, February 19 2006 23:23 Profile Homepage #35 quote: Originally written by Dintiradan: Thralni, I find it strange that your teacher didn't even mention that the formula could be found empirically. I think you would have enjoyed my physics prof more: after giving a rapid-fire introduction to specific relativity, she declared it to be a martini moment. She then consumed a martini and stated that the problem had become much clearer. Fun class. If my teacher would have just said how they put this formula together, then I wouldn't have been asking around for other people to tell me. I have such things earlier on. I found the right, siple answer in my father's 50-year old physics book, and not in my own book. That means something must be wrong, right? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Semodius Warrior Member # 6689	written Monday, February 20 2006 06:35 Profile #36 Sometimes, different books suck more than other. ^_^ -------------------- --Dachnaz Posts: 50 \| Registered: Saturday, January 14 2006 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Monday, February 20 2006 07:35 Profile Homepage #37 Out of curiosity, what level class is this? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Monday, February 20 2006 07:52 Profile Homepage #38 I have no clue of how one calls it in America, but in Holland we call it fourth grade of secondary school (if secondary school is the right terminology, and not middle or high school). -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, February 20 2006 08:59 Profile Homepage #39 Secondary school is high school in America, and a class could involve calculus or not. If the students are assumed not to know or understand calculus, trying to explain energy by reference to line integrals isn't useful. —Alorael, who would at least hope that the book states that KE = 1/2mv^2 by definition, and then handwave the fact that that isn't quite the right definition. As far as he can tell, energy doesn't have any obvious existence besides its overwhelming utility because of the formulas assigned to it. Posts: 14579* \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Monday, February 20 2006 09:15 Profile Homepage #40 Energy is the ability to do work. Kinetic energy, a subset of that, is how much oomph something has when it's moving, how much work it can do on something when it hits that thing. Never mind that momentum is also how much oomph something has when it's moving. They're different kinds of oomph. What I wonder if is this is the equivalent to a conceptual regular high school physics, an honors SAT II-level high school physics, or an AP B-equivalent high school physics — because it's clearly not equivalent to an AP C class — but I don't even know how to ask that question in a way that would make sense to a European. In terms of IBs, maybe? I don't know the IB system well enough. EDIT: Ah, here we go. What physics classes are offered at your school, Thralni? What are their names and what do you do in each? [ Monday, February 20, 2006 09:17: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Monday, February 20 2006 09:28 Profile Homepage #41 Does fourth grade mean fourth from the end, or fourth from the beginning? In other words, how many grades are there and which one is fourth? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Monday, February 20 2006 09:31 Profile Homepage #42 I'm pretty sure that nobody counts backwards. "Fourth" means "fourth from the beginning." A description, of sorts. It's as though part of middle school were combined into high school. You start secondary school at age 12. [ Monday, February 20, 2006 09:33: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Monday, February 20 2006 10:16 Profile Homepage #43 Well, France counts their grades backwards, and that's 50% of the European secondary school systems that I know about, so I figured it was worth checking. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Monday, February 20 2006 10:20 Profile Homepage #44 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: EDIT: Ah, here we go. What physics classes are offered at your school, Thralni? What are their names and what do you do in each? Are there more than one? the only classes which is "exact" are just physics (only one sort), chemistry, biology and mathmatics, but that's in all Dutch schools like that. Is it different from America? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Monday, February 20 2006 10:20 Profile Homepage #45 I have no doubt that France does that simply to be contrary. :P -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Monday, February 20 2006 10:26 Profile Homepage #46 I was wondering how long it would take before somebody took that shot at France. 4 minutes... pretty fast. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Monday, February 20 2006 10:30 Profile Homepage #47 Thralni, I think we have a translation problem again. We are not talking about subjects, we are talking about specific courses. For example, mathematics would be a subject while algebra I, algebra II, geometry, and calculus might be examples of specific classes/courses. (I can't imagine that everyone in your whole school is in the same math class.) -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, February 20 2006 11:24 Profile Homepage #48 They could just be called, say, Physics 1, Physics 2, Physics 3, and so on, which wouldn't give any helpful references. Energy makes sense qualitatively. So does work. Quantitatively I'd have no idea how to define or measure energy as "oomph" without trying to make it useful, which is what it is, which is why energy is a function of measurable quantities, more or less. Basically, the concept of energy was created because it's so useful. The concept of, say, velocity wasn't so much created as given a scale. —Alorael, who expressed himself very poorly. He should just give up before he confuses himself and switches positions. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Monday, February 20 2006 11:49 Profile Homepage #49 There is physics 1 and 2, who are basically the same in fourth grade. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00