Harry Potter

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Author	Topic: Harry Potter
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:40 Profile Homepage #125 quote: Anyway, we're talking about the same thing: using fun, attractive and a covered way to teach things. In this case, "bad things". But that's not what's happening! JK Rowling wrote the series to make money, not to indoctrinate children into witchcraft. And I don't see how the books teach that witchcraft is a good thing or morally acceptable. That burden of proof is on you. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:48 Profile Homepage #126 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: quote: Originally written by Thuryl: quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: Blind to the true nature of God, children will synthesize or blend Biblical truth with the pagan beliefs and magical practices demonstrated in the Harry Potter movie. In the end, you distort and destroy any remnant of true Christian faith. For our God cannot be molded to match pagan gods. So Easter eggs are satanic now? Good to know. If "satanic" to you means "everything not God's/Christian"... If Rowling's books fit the criterion of "molding of God to match pagan gods" (despite the fact that they don't particularly mention the Christian God in any capacity whatsoever), then the modern celebration of Easter certainly does, and as such should not by your own logic be any more acceptable to you. Since celebrating Easter with chocolate eggs is a more entrenched and widespread cultural practice than reading Harry Potter novels, I'd think you'd be going after that custom with more fervour. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:51 Profile Homepage #127 Several points I will address: 1. quote: Imaginary ... experiences ... can affect the mind ... as much, if not more, than actual experiences. (attempted to cut down on the long-windedness) Also you cut down it's whole meaning too. And you're following conclusion just shows that: This, apparently, is your argument for the conclusion that fantasy is harmful. However, you take an unmentioned premise which I disagree with, spelled out below: "Imaginary experiences that affect the mind are harmful." I never said that and never wanted anyone to think that. There can be good imaginary experiences that affect the mind. Hey, how could you believe in God ig you don't know to abstract and imagine? The point is, kids can be deceived without even noticing it. The premise, here, is that "God's perspective" (or, more accurately, the perspective of the particular religious denomination you appear to belong to despite your previous claim to the contrary) is the correct one, As I said, I don't belong to any religious denomination. I just consider myself christian and believe in the Bible. My knowledge on the subject is from the Bible and many religious denominations (even non-christian ones). Anyway, I claimed that my opinion is with christian morals in mind, didn't hide it from anyone. If you agree with it or not, it's up to you. That's why I said it's only my opinion, not a dogma or law. and that taking another perspective - such as, say, that of an atheist or other religious faith, is harmful. This premise, needless to say, is equally false. As I said to someone else, if you're not christian, then what I say doesn't concern you, as what I say is having in mind christian faith. And atheísm, for example, is harmful for the christian faith. But if you're not christian, then you don't care and I don't blame you for it. At various points, you quote a book that, while certainly a very ancient and at certain points worthwhile work of literature, holds no authority whatsoever in a meaningful debate. Not even Christians (take me for instance) unanimously endorse this book as an ultimate truth of any kind. The Bible quotes are a complement. If you don't like them, then limit yourself to read the main text. Anyway, let's not start devianting from the subject, by discussing the Bible's authority. You go on to hold up the great impact that "Harry Potter" has had on our culture as a negative effect. Again, you base this on a false premise and circular reasoning (see point one). Point one was false. Try again. As a matter of fact, there are few popular works of literature that have not influenced culture to an extreme extent - take the Bible as an example. So has "Lord of the Rings". So have the plays by William Shakespeare. Is it your intent to label all works of literature that influence culture "harmful"? Or merely the ones that run contrary to your own opinion? Once again, point one was false, so I guess this point ceased to have a reason to exist. BTW, LotR isn't comparable with Harry. There a clear notion of what's good and evil, there's not wichcrafting teaching, the evil is not made good and good is not made evil, good wins over evil. Many people even claim that LotR is full of christian allegories. -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Custer Bob's Big Date Member # 3151	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:55 Profile Homepage #128 I have edited my post earlier today. You are welcome to see it if you like. It took me some time to write, so I would prefer if you did. -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 \| Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:55 Profile Homepage #129 quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: quote: Anyway, we're talking about the same thing: using fun, attractive and a covered way to teach things. In this case, "bad things". But that's not what's happening! JK Rowling wrote the series to make money, not to indoctrinate children into witchcraft. And I don't see how the books teach that witchcraft is a good thing or morally acceptable. That burden of proof is on you. All you said was already addressed in my previous posts. I don't claim the author does that intentionally, but that's not the point. The point is that the books do it. About how Harry books can be harmful, was already explained, I won't repeat. (Someone could accuse me that I was repeating myself just to drown the discussion). -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:58 Profile Homepage #130 quote: Originally written by Thuryl: quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: quote: Originally written by Thuryl: quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: Blind to the true nature of God, children will synthesize or blend Biblical truth with the pagan beliefs and magical practices demonstrated in the Harry Potter movie. In the end, you distort and destroy any remnant of true Christian faith. For our God cannot be molded to match pagan gods. So Easter eggs are satanic now? Good to know. If "satanic" to you means "everything not God's/Christian"... If Rowling's books fit the criterion of "molding of God to match pagan gods" (despite the fact that they don't particularly mention the Christian God in any capacity whatsoever), then the modern celebration of Easter certainly does, and as such should not by your own logic be any more acceptable to you. Since celebrating Easter with chocolate eggs is a more entrenched and widespread cultural practice than reading Harry Potter novels, I'd think you'd be going after that custom with more fervour. And there are many more subjects more important than this, but we're in a Harry Potter thread, so I guess it would be off-topic talking about the other subjects. You should try to do the same: stay in-topic and contribute for the discussion. But I know you like just to pop-in without reading the whole topic and throw some "witty" short sentences and see the reaction. :P -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 05:11 Profile Homepage #131 Damn you, Thuryl, and your witty short sentences! -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 05:11 Profile Homepage #132 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: And there are many more subjects more important than this, but we're in a Harry Potter thread, so I guess it would be off-topic talking about the other subjects. You should try to do the same: stay in-topic and contribute for the discussion. But I know you like just to pop-in without reading the whole topic and throw some "witty" short sentences and see the reaction. :P What I am doing is making an argument from analogy, by pointing out that there are plenty of traditions which originated in pagan ritual and are regarded as perfectly harmless by mainstream Christians. As such, the fact that something has links to pagan religions is not prima facie evidence that it is unacceptable to Christians. [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 05:12: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Drew By Committee Member # 4233	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 05:19 Profile #133 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: ""The ordinary person is typified as being bad because they have no (magic) powers, and heroes are the people who are using the occult. Good finds itself in the occult, which is an inversion of morality for many Christian people" Even many non-Christian parents have been concerned due to the greatly heightened fear that their younger children have after reading Potter's books." Just to answer this direct quote from the article, who believes that the occult is real? I don't think it has anything to do with being a Christian or an atheist. Also, kids are smart, and by and large understand the difference between reality and the Land of Make Believe. quote: Of course, I'm talking in a Christian moral point of view. An atheíst wouldn't think that above is wrong, for example. But then again, what moral does he have? Only his own moral. At least christian claim their moral is from God, a perfect and just being, that can be the standard for moral. An atheíst is only a falible human being. The Christian moral is just as relative. Else, why would there be a need for so many different sects? Why isn't there just one church, which is Right? quote: Books, movies, games, and television all involve the imagination, and the specific fantasy directs the child's imagination. In other words, the imaginary scenes and images in books and movies are not neutral. As with guided imagery, the child's feelings and responses are manipulated by the author's view and values. For example, the stories and books children read in the classroom are usually selected or approved by each state because their message teaches the new global values, and because they provide useful discussion topics for the manipulative consensus process. Good stories capture the heart, mind, and imagination and are an important way to transmit values. Books such as the Harry Potters series fit, because they reinforce the global and occult perspective...[ending with an OT quote] You're essentially saying that your faith/religion is afraid of or threatened by something that's not real. No kidding that books influence people - some would argue that one of the biggest culprits of this is the Bible. You choose to believe in it, but on what basis? The established traditions of man. Also, you can't denegrate the state, the "fallible" institutional basis (for the sake of this discussion) for the atheist's morality on the one hand, and then rely on its "sound" judgment in approving educational literature for children on the other. Which is it going to be? quote: You see, I can show a gun to a child, I won't deny its existence. But I wouldn't never do something like: «hey, it's a nice gun. It's fun! This is how you load it, and this is the trigger. Try it!». The least someone could do is to warn the child how harmful a gun can be. But you don't have that warning in Harry Potter, about witchcraft. Also, whichcraft, for those that believe in the Bible, is something evil in nature, there's no "good"/"white" witchcraft. It's like poison. No one would give a pill saying: swallow this. Probably it would be disguized in a drink or nice looking meal. Just like wichcrafting in Harry Potter books. Hmm. I think what you're failing to realize is that witchcraft isn't real. Kids play cops and robbers with imaginary guns all the time, knowing full well what real guns do, yet understanding that it's pretend, and that they aren't actually trying to kill one another. Likewise, magic isn't real. Kids know that spells don't exist, and although they chase one another around waving wands, they know nothing in reality will come of it. There's as much proof for witchcraft's acts of the occult as miracles in your own religious tradition. The difference is that your religion, however real, won wide approval among man's institutions in the 2nd century and continues to make politically savvy moves in order to remain relevant and legitimate, whereas witchcraft became (as a result of political competition with your faith) and is now widely regarded as a bunch of hooey, however fun, fantastic, and imaginative. quote: Which would make everything aceptable, as no one has a "better" moral than other. No. The social contract makes what is illegal unacceptable. While laws do change, by and large points relating to personal safety and property remain constant. The difference between man's law and Christian moral law is that man's law is actually enforced in this life. If you are so concerned about the effects of Harry Potter on your and others' immortal souls, then you have no business playing RPGs - I can't see how you can legitimately distinguish the two. That your faith in Christianity even allows for the existence of magic outside of that of the Lord confuses me. [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 05:28: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 \| Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Tuesday, July 12 2005 05:20 Profile Homepage #134 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: Also you cut down it's whole meaning too. And you're following conclusion just shows that. What, then, do you mean? "Kids are easily deceived" is certainly no argument in any direction - one could say the same of children being taught creationism, which is as harmful or more. quote: As I said, I don't belong to any religious denomination. I just consider myself christian and believe in the Bible. For your information, "christian" is a religious denomination. quote: As I said to someone else, if you're not christian, then what I say doesn't concern you... At this point, I strongly fight the urge to tell you "then shut up and post on a forum where everyone is christian". What is the point of posting here if your words are not meant to be read or replied to by any person here who so wishes? But as a matter of fact, I consider myself Christian - I am baptized, I have had Confirmation, I'm a member of the Protestant Church. My agnosticism does not make me non-Christian, unless by "christian" you actually mean "Fundamentalist". In that case, the above paragraph applies as well. quote: The Bible quotes are a complement. If you don't like them, then limit yourself to read the main text. Anyway, let's not start devianting [sic] from the subject, by discussing the Bible's authority. While the quotes may be a complement, you repeatedly justify your arguments by calling on the authority of the Bible and religious figures in general. Your logic is based on the Bible, and that is where its authority comes in. Far from "devianting" from the subject, I am calling into question a key point in your reasoning. quote: Once again, point one was false, so I guess this point ceased to have a reason to exist. BTW, LotR isn't comparable with Harry. There a clear notion of what's good and evil, there's not wichcrafting teaching, the evil is not made good and good is not made evil, good wins over evil. Many people even claim that LotR is full of christian allegories. I am intimately familiar with Tolkien's work, and nearly as familiar with Harry Potter. As such, I pose that: There is no "clear" (ie. binary, as you appear to favor) notion of good and evil in LotR any more than in HP. The Ring, a non-sentient object, is capable of waking "evil" desires in otherwise good people. There are transitions in people of unclear affinity, people who are corrupted by their own greed, and people who undergo a transformation from "evil" to "good". There are no ultimately evil, nor ultimately good characters. "Witchcraft" is not being taught in Harry Potter. While the story concerns characters learning about witchcraft, any "information" on witchcraft contained in the book is utterly fictional with the occasional roots in mythology. Try casting a "spell" if you don't believe me. Didn't work, right? Thus, when Harry Potter speaks the words "Incendio", in what way is this different from Gandalf speaking the words "Naur an edraith ammen"? The roles of good and evil are not being reversed in Harry Potter. That would implicate the character of "Lord Voldemort" (depicted as evil in the book) actually represents Good. Please justify in what way Lord Voldemort or his ideals can fit the concept of "Good" as viewed by a Christian. --- Lastly, while it is true that Christian allegories have ever been seen by various people in the books, so have white supremacist allegories, environmentalist/counter-industrial allegories, pacifist allegories, fascist allegories, and many others. Even though Tolkien was admittedly a devout Christian, he himself has claimed to "dislike allegory" in all forms. He went far to avoid allegory in his work. You cannot claim to know an author's intention better than he himself does. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 02:18 Profile Homepage #135 Duh... You talk about me drowning a discussion with long posts, how about many users posting relatively long posts at the same time? :P Anyway, I don't feel like continuing this discussion, or I would have to spend all day replying to you all. I'll just clarify certain points you raised: 1. I just gave my opinion about Harry Potter in a short sentence. Also mentioned what I think about the book's price, in a short paragraph. Someone asked about my opinion, then I answered and the discussion begun. So I didn't come here to change anyone's mind. I expressed my opinion (and I think I have the right to have my opinion) and you came rebuking it, talking agains't it and, some of you, in an personal agressive way, calling me fundamentalist (it looks that anyone who has a different opinion or doesn't agree with you must be a fundamentalist). 2. I said my opinion has a christian point of view. But as you said, christianity has many different denominations with different opinions. So when I say my opinion is based in christian beliefs, I'm not saying that my opinion represents all christian's opinions. 3. I'm amazed that people don't understand what's the problem/danger here. Some still think that the problem is that kids might start trying to wave their wands and produce magic. Well, I can only say this: read what I wrote again and try to understand. But since you are already with your minds pre-set to rebuke my words, you have no openess of mind enough to even understand what I'm trying to say. 4. This is the most important one as someone asked: where in the Bible? Where is it written that wichcraft is evil? Etc, etc, etc in the Bible? Well, to spare this thread from another long post, I'll make my words the following text in this site (you just had to google a little bit): http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-occult.html 5. About Harry Potter books' seduction to the occult, that you just don't want to believe because you think a book can't change anything... Well, I won't even talk about those kids who killed all coleegues and teachers, influenced by books/videogames, etc... That's an extreme example. I'm talking about subtle changes in a persons mind and personality that a book can offer. Your personality is a result of what you learned through your life: family, school, friends, books... Trying to deny it is trying to shut your eyes. Anyway, here's some interesting articles about Harry Potter's seduction to the occult: http://www.surfinthespirit.com/entertainment/harry-potter-1.shtml http://www.fillthevoid.org/Entertainment/Harry-Potter-2.html 6. I'll be quoting an interesting text: quote: Even some Christians leaders agree that it's "just fantasy" and generally acceptable for the Christian reader, including Chuck Colson of Breakpoint, the editors of World Magazine, and Connie Neal (author of What's A Christian To Do With Harry Potter?) However, occult experts, Marcia Montenegro of Christian Answers for the New Age and Caryl Matrisciana, author of Gods of the New Age, disagree with their Christian peers. Both have personal experience in the occult before becoming Christians As one example among many, Caryl points to a chapter in the fourth book entitled "Flesh, Blood and Bone". "Harry is magically transported with his friend Cedric to a dark, scary graveyard. There, Harry is tied to the headstone of Lord Voldemort's father's tomb by Voldemort's slave, Wormtail -- a shapeshifter who takes the form of a rat. A slithering snake, synonymous with the presence of Voldemort, circles around Harry. Following an order to kill from a voice of unknown origin, the slave utters a death curse. In shock, Harry witnesses the murder of his friend Cedric." Perhaps all of this sounds a bit scary, but nothing to be concerned about. Potter fans say that this world is just make believe and has no bearing on the real world. While a few Christians don't even like to read or see classics such as Sleeping Beauty, Lord of the Rings, or Chronicles of Narnia due to the mere presence of evil, most Christians recognize the good vs. evil element as being clearly delineated. Evil is evil, and good is good, and good is promoted while evil is not. But in the Potter series, the line is not so clear. The "good" guys practice "white magic", while the bad guys practice the "Dark Arts". Readers become fascinated with the magic used (explained in remarkable detail). Yet God is clear in Scripture that any practice of magic is an "abomination" to him. God doesn't distinguish between "white" and "dark" magic since they both originate from the same source. "There shall not be found among you anyone who ...practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you." Deut. 18:10-14 Furthermore, if one were to use the reasoning that such objectionable material can be included in fantasy literature, then "that line of reasoning would tell you that you could include in fantasy any violence, pornography, whatever you wanted, and still defend those books by that very same statement." 7. Finally, about the vatican saying Harry Potter is ok. Those are the same who named the Inquisition as "Holy" Inquisition. I don't recognize the vatican any authority. Specially over the Bible. (It's amazing how you can bash religion and the Bible, but use them if they fit your opinion. You shouldn't change shirts like that.) Over and out. :) -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 03:12 Profile Homepage #136 You keep telling us that we're missing your point and what you think the harm is and that we should go back and reread what you said. Well, we've all done that and still don't understand your point, so why don't you just tell us outright, in one or two paragraphs? -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 04:00 Profile #137 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: Duh... You talk about me drowning a discussion with long posts, how about many users posting relatively long posts at the same time? :P You've got a gift for sophistry, I'll admit, but the reason there have been a number of longish (if generally rather more tightly-focused and coherent) replies to you is because you've made massive posts full of some of the most specious arguments I've seen in months. If you haven't got a leg to stand on but continue to deny this, you should expect your error to be pointed out in painstaking detail. quote: [b]1. I just gave my opinion about Harry Potter in a short sentence. Also mentioned what I think about the book's price, in a short paragraph. Someone asked about my opinion, then I answered and the discussion begun. So I didn't come here to change anyone's mind. I expressed my opinion (and I think I have the right to have my opinion) and you came rebuking it, talking agains't it and, some of you, in an personal agressive way, calling me fundamentalist (it looks that anyone who has a different opinion or doesn't agree with you must be a fundamentalist). [/b] I agree that fundamentalist sounds slightly too pejorative and inaccurate in this case. The more appropriate term here would be loon, would it not? Rudeness aside, if you come to a message board and post an opinion, it's not an amazing occurrence for this opinion to be questioned, especially if people disagree with it. Sure, you're not doing missionary work here but if you really thought that you wouldn't spark a debate of some kind, you're hopelessly naive. quote: [b]3. I'm amazed that people don't understand what's the problem/danger here. Some still think that the problem is that kids might start trying to wave their wands and produce magic. Well, I can only say this: read what I wrote again and try to understand. But since you are already with your minds pre-set to rebuke my words, you have no openess of mind enough to even understand what I'm trying to say. [/b] I'm going to have to echo Drakefyre here. I don't know what you are trying to say. This isn't because my ideas are too deeply ingrained - I'm quite capable of seeing where somebody's coming from and still disagreeing strongly. My problem is that I either skimmed over it whilst searching your posts for a point or, more likely, it's a mythical and wholly insubstantial creature anyway. Are you saying it will lead children to the occult? If so, you've given us no evidence the occult actually exists. Are you saying it will draw children away from Christianity? If Christianity is that unappealing, it has a problem, but that doesn't make Harry Potter satanic and dangerous. Are you saying that the problem is that the book is part of the multicultural world agenda to corrupt children and do evil and commit whatever atrocities it is that vast occult conspiracies do these days? If so, I don't see much point in arguing with you. I was going to comment on the article you posted, but I'm bored and hungry and Alec does a much better straw man and analysis job than I do. I also can't be bothered to read the links, since I'm no longer Christian so as you point out I'll be unlikely to be convinced by their arguments. Anything else I've left out was omitted because it was hard to disagree with or I was bored of typing. Yes, this post is too long and you don't want to continue the argument, but if you expected to get the last word, you vastly overestimated our willingness to stop flogging a dead horse. -------------------- Voice of Reasonable Morality Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Drew By Committee Member # 4233	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 04:26 Profile #138 Magic isn't real. Edited for the sake of correctness. [ Wednesday, July 13, 2005 04:58: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 \| Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 04:30 Profile Homepage #139 Er, just to give the devil his due (so to speak), he's actually stated that he doesn't want the book banned; he just plain doesn't like it. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Drew By Committee Member # 4233	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 04:34 Profile #140 Fair enough - I retract that statement. I will still assert, however, that the Bible is far more dangerous to society than the Harry Potter series. [ Wednesday, July 13, 2005 04:37: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 \| Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 14:51 Profile Homepage #141 The Bible says the occult is real, so denying it without proving it (an impossibility) is meaningless in the context of this debate. I'll ask a simple question (again). What makes Harry Potter worse than all the other fantasy books, and there are many? Popularity doesn't make any sense, because if Harry Potter disappeared then something else would be the most popular. Do you object to all fantasy? If so, what are you doing on the boards of a company that makes fantasy games? —Alorael, who would like to see some psychology paper citations with everyone throwing around beliefs on how impressionable children are. He'll freely admit that he doesn't know. Now, where's some evidence? Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Ash Lael E Equals MC What!!!! Member # 5491	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 18:09 Profile Homepage #142 quote: Originally written by Drew: Fair enough - I retract that statement. I will still assert, however, that the Bible is far more dangerous to society than the Harry Potter series. I'd assert that the Bible has contributed a heck of a lot more to society than Harry Potter. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 \| Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 18:19 Profile Homepage #143 If you think of certain religious extremists as rabid fanboys the world becomes a lot more understandable in a twisted way. —Alorael, who is very, very sorry about this post. Not extremely sorry, but very, very sorry. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Jumpin Salmon ? Man, ? Amazing Member # 5755	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 20:23 Profile #144 Andrew's statement quote: I will still assert, however, that the Bible is far more dangerous to society than the Harry Potter series is not inconsistent with Ash's statement quote: I'd assert that the Bible has contributed a heck of a lot more to society than Harry Potter Dear Abby, I read the Wizard of Oz, and now I'm scared of the scarecrow in my neighbor's corn field. Will he really come alive? My mommy says books are make-believe, but the Narnia books have a talking lion. If two books have talking lions could it be true? Are there talking lions? The Grinch isn't real, is he? Is there really someone that will steal my Christmas? There are really old people in the book that the man in the church reads, but my granpa is much younger and he is dying. Why is that? Thanks for answering my questions, because all these books scare me and I think I would be better off never reading or hearing about anything else ever again. - Allison Allegory this message mentions fictional characters, no real characters have been used in this message Posts: 4114 \| Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 21:15 Profile Homepage #145 Damn. Now I really need to find that website that claimed C.S. Lewis was a closet Satanist. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Spring Shaper Member # 5450	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 21:27 Profile Homepage #146 Overwhelming — I highly doubt that you wrote all that. I think that you simply got it off another website. But thats irrelevant. Harry Potter does not teach kids witchcraft. It does not say that it is good to do ANY of the things in the books. It is merely FICTION. Surely you know what fiction is? From the Latin word Ficio, meaning fake, IIRC. There are (as far as I can remember) no references to christianity at all during the books, no references to the devil. The closest it gets to that is the word 'evil' when describing Voldemort. No christianity references whatsoever. I think you need to reread (or read if you have not yet) the Harry Potter series, and then give me your opinion. Also: 1 day, 7 hours, 32 minutes and 52 seconds remaining until release. And please, I started this topic because I wanted to know if people where going to buy the new Harry Potter book, not hear Overwhelming bang on about whatever he was banging on about after the long post of his - I didn't think it was worth reading. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 \| Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Jumpin Salmon ? Man, ? Amazing Member # 5755	written Wednesday, July 13 2005 21:41 Profile #147 quote: As originally written by Spring: I didn't think it was worth reading. Heheheh. May I have permission to use that as your signature? this message funded by the unintended consequences division of christianity fund Posts: 4114 \| Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Thursday, July 14 2005 15:01 Profile Homepage #148 quote: Originally written by Spring: Overwhelming — I highly doubt that you wrote all that. I think that you simply got it off another website. But thats irrelevant. Since he quoted it, this is obviously true. And yes, irrelevant as well. It states his point just fine. —Alorael, who is pretty sure Tolkien was a devil-worshipper. He did convert C. S. Lewis to "Catholicism," but everyone knows that that's only a thin front for Satan's minions. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Thursday, July 14 2005 15:31 Profile Homepage #149 Okay, I realize this is over, but I didn't get to it until just now. Does anyone else think it's funny that Overwhelming could only defend himself by trying to claim that people hadn't read his post thoroughly? Let this be a lesson to all: restate, rephrase, and reword your argument in order to clarify it and differentiate it from others' misrepresentations or misinterpretations, if that is in fact the problem. Oh, and if God's hold on these kids is so tenuous that it can be broken by reading a few books of fantasy, then perhaps these kids didn't really believe in the first place. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00