Harry Potter

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Author	Topic: Harry Potter
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Friday, July 8 2005 02:10 Profile #75 Fairy tales were originally much more likely to be about the things deep in the woods that were to be avoided - much more Grendel than Goldilocks. They were only made more 'wholesome' because of their bowlderisation from the 19th century onwards and in some cultures, such as in Russia, this never happened so you're left with much darker tales. Which, provided a child is able to distinguish right from wrong and fact from fiction, is no bad thing. We do not need to be tightly wrapped in cotton wool. -------------------- Voice of Reasonable Morality Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Friday, July 8 2005 03:09 Profile Homepage #76 Not necessarily about things to be avoided; fairy tales were often just morality tales in general. I've always found the premise of "The Girl Who Trod on the Loaf" hilarious in a vaguely unsettling way. [ Friday, July 08, 2005 03:10: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Sunday, July 10 2005 07:59 Profile #77 Never heard that one. But you have a point. Occasionally, as in the case of Cinderella, the stories were even just examples of astonishingly crass innuendo. -------------------- Voice of Reasonable Morality Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Spring Shaper Member # 5450	written Sunday, July 10 2005 21:12 Profile Homepage #78 strays on topic 4 days until release. Getting closer. Saturday. lets others continue -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 \| Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Milla Infiltrator Member # 65	written Monday, July 11 2005 01:29 Profile Homepage #79 Why 4 days? Isn't it coming out on July 16, which would mean at the most 5-6 days till release -------------------- "He's mine, go get your own human plaything!" Bernard Black (Black Books) Also look at my sitehere This is also a good site Posts: 650 \| Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Monday, July 11 2005 02:07 Profile Homepage #80 Well, by virtue of Australian time zones, there are four days until the release day (midnight between the 15th and 16th) - the 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Archmagus Micael Agent Member # 4506	written Monday, July 11 2005 02:54 Profile Homepage #81 quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: Well, by virtue of Australian time zones, there are four days until the release day (midnight between the 15th and 16th) - the 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th. I thought it was going to be released on the 16th by OUR time frame, not by anyone else's. - Archmagus Micael -------------------- "You dare Trifle with Exile?" - Erika the Archmage -------------------- My Scenarios: Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong? -------------------- Proof of Richard Black's existance: Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website). Posts: 1370 \| Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Monday, July 11 2005 03:11 Profile Homepage #82 Yes, but Milla and Spring are both Australian. [ Monday, July 11, 2005 03:42: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Monday, July 11 2005 03:11 Profile Homepage #83 I don't apreciate Harry Potter. And I don't think it's suitable for children, as it's morals and virtues are very twisted. But it's all disguized in a nice fairy tale. About its price... 30$?? That's exploitation. But people will pay for it anyway. I once paid 25? for an historical fiction book, but it was worth it. The quality and historical accuracy made it worth it. Now, a fantasy book... I don't mind to pay well for a good book (someone was talking about textbooks... I've paid 150$ for my anatomy&physiology book, and 100-120$ for some others. But I understand the prices: you can't compare scientific books, which require research, accuracy, years to make, etc with fantasy books: a writer sits at his desk and uses his imagination to make a story. It's a lot more expensive to make a scientific textbook than a fantasy fiction book.) [ Monday, July 11, 2005 03:12: Message edited by: Overwhelming ] -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Archmagus Micael Agent Member # 4506	written Monday, July 11 2005 03:22 Profile Homepage #84 But a fantasy novel is much better than a textbook (for most people at least). And hey! I’m writing my own Fantasy novel – don’t insult them! It’ll be worth good money… and people WILL pay :mad: – Archmagus Micael -------------------- "You dare Trifle with Exile?" - Erika the Archmage -------------------- My Scenarios: Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong? -------------------- Proof of Richard Black's existance: Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website). Posts: 1370 \| Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Monday, July 11 2005 03:33 Profile Homepage #85 Insulting them? I'm not insulting anyone. I'm just saying that a textbook justifies its price for the reasons I mentioned. A fantasy fiction book doesn't. I love fantasy books, so I'm not bashing them. -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Monday, July 11 2005 03:36 Profile Homepage #86 quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Yes, but Milla and Spring are both Australian. Also, aren't you British? So, since Jeff's American, it won't be by your time frame either. :P If we are still talking about Harry Potter, I believe that it is written not by Jeff, but by J.K. Rowling. Who is, in fact, British. Or are we discussing something else now? -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Monday, July 11 2005 03:43 Profile Homepage #87 Whoops. See, this is why you should always read a thread properly to figure out context before replying. Or at least, uh, read its title and hope it hasn't gone off-topic. :o -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Monday, July 11 2005 04:02 Profile Homepage #88 quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Yes, but Milla and Spring are both Australian. I was referring to the fact that he posted on July 10th according to the board. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Drew By Committee Member # 4233	written Monday, July 11 2005 05:29 Profile #89 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: ...it's morals and virtues are very twisted. But it's all disguized in a nice fairy tale. I don't think they are. The books seem to foster the values of diversity, open-mindedness, loyalty, friendship, and the value of life. How can you object to those values? quote: About its price... 30$?? That's exploitation. But people will pay for it anyway. I once paid 25? for an historical fiction book, but it was worth it. The quality and historical accuracy made it worth it. Now, a fantasy book... I don't mind to pay well for a good book (someone was talking about textbooks... I've paid 150$ for my anatomy&physiology book, and 100-120$ for some others. But I understand the prices: you can't compare scientific books, which require research, accuracy, years to make, etc with fantasy books: a writer sits at his desk and uses his imagination to make a story. It's a lot more expensive to make a scientific textbook than a fantasy fiction book.) No one's being exploited - the book isn't food, water, or shelter, so strictly speaking, the book isn't vital to living, and lack of the book isn't even remotely detrimental to life. Frankly, I'd be amazed if you can't find the book at a steep discount at this point - I believe I'll be paying $16 or so for it at B&N. Also, most science and mathematics text books are based on other text books; the authors aren't reinventing the wheel every time. Check out what edition each of your texts is on - new editions of topics that don't change frequently are a cinch to update. If there's any publishing industry that exploits people, in fact, it's the textbook industry - students are required to purchase those $100 to $150 texts in order to be able to pass classes! Why don't you just say what you're actually thinking and cut the rest of the bull? "I object to Harry Potter because I think it's bad, based on the sense of morality I get directly from my Catholic faith." Posts: 2242 \| Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Monday, July 11 2005 05:32 Profile Homepage #90 Also, I'm sure that there will be a paperback version out under $10. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Milla Infiltrator Member # 65	written Monday, July 11 2005 05:57 Profile Homepage #91 quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Yes, but Milla and Spring are both Australian. I was referring to the fact that he posted on July 10th according to the board. I was refering to the fact that it was Monday the 11th here and Harry Potter was due 16th. Therefore 5 days. :) -------------------- "He's mine, go get your own human plaything!" Bernard Black (Black Books) Also look at my sitehere This is also a good site Posts: 650 \| Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Monday, July 11 2005 10:02 Profile Homepage #92 quote: Originally written by Drew: quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: ...it's morals and virtues are very twisted. But it's all disguized in a nice fairy tale. I don't think they are. The books seem to foster the values of diversity, open-mindedness, loyalty, friendship, and the value of life. How can you object to those values? Hum... Let me quote: quote: The problem is, witchcraft is not fantasy; it is a sinful reality in our world. "J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series, has gone through an awful lot of research. She is very accurate (otherwise we would have witches all over the country and the world saying 'this is not a true representation of our religion'.) This is a true representation of witchcraft, and the black arts, and black magic. And yet we have people that say this is merely fantasy and harmless reading for our children. Actually, what makes this more dangerous is that it is couched in fantasy language, and children's literature, and made to be humorous, and beautifully written and extremely provocative reading. and it just opens up children to want to have the next one. This is what is so harmful." Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged studies elements of Rowlings's imagery and writings, including the use of the "Potter" name in Pagan religion [13], shapechanging [14], meditation [15], human sacrifice [16], feminine power, Wicca (the religion of witchcraft) [17], the tools, spells and curses used in witchcraft [18], Christian youth and their involvement [19], communicating with the spirit world, reincarnation, situational ethics in witchcraft, the lightning bolt as a power symbol, broomsticks and witches' hats as phallic symbols, dabbling in divination and sorcery, recruitment, teaching children dark arts, Scholastic Inc.'s involvement, and more. (...) "With the growing popularity of youth-oriented TV shows on witchcraft -- 'Sabrina, the Teenage Witch;' 'Charmed;' 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' -- a generation of children is becoming desensitized to the occult. But with Hollywood's help, Harry Potter will likely surpass all these influences, potentially reaping some grave spiritual consequences." [22] Potter has caused quite a stir in many nations, with several Australian Christian schools supporting a banning of the books. "Dr. Chas. Gullo of the Christian Outreach College, a private school in Queensland state, said he read one chapter from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and was exposed to four murders. 'It was pretty gory,' Gullo said in Brisbane's Courier-Mail newspaper." [23] Rev. Robert Frisken of Christian Community Schools Ltd in Australia says: "The ordinary person is typified as being bad because they have no (magic) powers, and heroes are the people who are using the occult. Good finds itself in the occult, which is an inversion of morality for many Christian people" [24] Even many non-Christian parents have been concerned due to the greatly heightened fear that their younger children have after reading Potter's books. (...) Author Richard Abanes has written a book called Harry Potter and the Bible. He says that the movie and books not only teach anti-Christian lessons on the occult, but also moral relativism, and desensitize children to profanity and off-color humor. You said: quote: Also, most science and mathematics text books are based on other text books; the authors aren't reinventing the wheel every time. That's right. That's part of research. And it's great to have relevant information compiled from different authors. Instead of making you get 100 textbooks, you might just have to read one or two. If I find out that a textbook is from one author and that author doesn't mention any other bibliography, it would be suspect and not trustworthy. Of course, no one has to buy the Harry Potter books, but surely most fans and collectors will pay that outreagous price for the book. Just like no one has to buy the textbooks, one can read them in the university's library. That's not the point. The point is if the money required to buy the books is fair for what it is. BTW, I don't belong to any religious denomination. :) [ Monday, July 11, 2005 10:05: Message edited by: Overwhelming ] -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Monday, July 11 2005 10:17 Profile Homepage #93 quote: Originally written by Milla: quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Yes, but Milla and Spring are both Australian. I was referring to the fact that he posted on July 10th according to the board. I was refering to the fact that it was Monday the 11th here and Harry Potter was due 16th. Therefore 5 days. :) But it's four days! The 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Monday, July 11 2005 10:47 Profile Homepage #94 And a few minutes, of course, since it's unlikely you'll get the book directly at midnight as other people will be waiting. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Drew By Committee Member # 4233	written Monday, July 11 2005 10:49 Profile #95 Although that article goes out of its way to describe characteristics of witchcraft (as well as fail to distinguish it from fantasy), it largely fails to do what it intends: explain why any of these things are negative influences on readers. The reference to four murders? Big deal - it's not as if murder is a topic absent from pretty much every other genre of literature ever, especially in the fantasy that you love. Note that your own website incorporates stylized images of skulls, and features content like information on Kel's Lord Putidus scenario, which is hardly Christian in nature. How do you reconcile that imagery and content with your beliefs? Harry Potter is no more malicious than any other children's literature - I refer you to the topic on fairy tales as a starting point. If you're going to try and protect people from any ideas other than wholesome Christian ones, I know of some good land in Montana where you can found your Bible madrassa. quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: Of course, no one has to buy the Harry Potter books, but surely most fans and collectors will pay that outreagous price for the book... The price isn't outrageous to them (or to me), though. It's all relative. I love how "moral relativism" has become a dirty word, synonymous with "wishy-washy." Nothing could be further from the truth. Moral relativists merely recognize that there is no assertive superhuman source of authority in the world other than those which humans themselves construct. As such, morality is dependent on the social contract, an institution far older than human conception/perception of any god(s), and one composed of cummulative human experiences in what works as a society and what doesn't. Tradition and the law. Boil down all cultures, and there are some pretty universal tenets: an aversion to killing, stealing, cheating, etc. Nothing relative there. [ Monday, July 11, 2005 10:52: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 \| Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Hawk King Infiltrator Member # 5566	written Monday, July 11 2005 12:38 Profile #96 quote: Originally written by Zeviz: SHawk King, I don't think Russians are any more violent than Americans, or anybody else (at least based on the people I've encountered). As for darkness in some of our literature, it's more of a reflection of willingness to admit the existence of bad things in life. Untrue whenever people discover I am violent they always say its the russian blood in me and A little from my father... -------------------- Why are you reading this ? Posts: 507 \| Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, July 11 2005 12:54 Profile Homepage #97 If you base beliefs on what people say, you're setting yourself up for a very confused and unhappy life. What "they" say need not keep company with reality. —Alorael, who inquires as to what makes Harry Potter horrible, Satanic fantasy when other fantasy passes without comment. Note that David Drake's Lord of the Isles comes with a preface warning that the incantations depcited therein have some basis in traditional magical practices and that the reader imitates at his own risk! Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Spring Shaper Member # 5450	written Monday, July 11 2005 21:28 Profile Homepage #98 quote: Originally written by Milla: quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Yes, but Milla and Spring are both Australian. I was referring to the fact that he posted on July 10th according to the board. I was refering to the fact that it was Monday the 11th here and Harry Potter was due 16th. Therefore 5 days. :) It was 4 days, and a couple of hours, minutes, seconds, etc. But now it is (to be exact): 3 days, 7 hours, 31 minutes and 55 seconds. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 \| Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Grim Demise Apprentice Member # 4266	written Monday, July 11 2005 21:30 Profile #99 yep -------------------- mwahahahahahahahahaha im back Posts: 6 \| Registered: Thursday, April 15 2004 07:00