Harry Potter
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Law Bringer
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written Monday, July 11 2005 22:17
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quote:Compassionate Conservatism(TM). ~~"We'll teach you to be open-minded."~~ -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
E Equals MC What!!!!
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written Monday, July 11 2005 22:58
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Oh, wow. I never expected to see this argument on Spidweb. For an encore, how about we argue about whether Christian music is in fact a tool of the Devil? Given that the Bible itself contains descriptions of witchcraft (and not just silly Bewitched-style fantasy labelled "witchcraft") I've always thought it was absurd to object to Harry Potter on religious grounds. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
Shaper
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 00:51
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So have I. So there is a bit of magic in the books, its teaching the kids imagination, and its not like JK is writing about anti-christ morons, who dream to join the KKK, is it? -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
E Equals MC What!!!!
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:30
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Well, the Death Eaters have similarities to the KKK... I think you might have just convinced me. :P -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
Agent
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:38
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Spring, I didn't know that the KKK was anti-Christ, I always thought it was twisted Christianity. -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:42
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[b]Although that article goes out of its way to describe characteristics of witchcraft (as well as fail to distinguish it from fantasy), it largely fails to do what it intends: explain why any of these things are negative influences on readers. The reference to four murders? Big deal - it's not as if murder is a topic absent from pretty much every other genre of literature ever, especially in the fantasy that you love.[/b] I won't be too exaustive in my answer, but it might be a bit long. ""The ordinary person is typified as being bad because they have no (magic) powers, and heroes are the people who are using the occult. Good finds itself in the occult, which is an inversion of morality for many Christian people" Even many non-Christian parents have been concerned due to the greatly heightened fear that their younger children have after reading Potter's books." Of course, I'm talking in a Christian moral point of view. An atheíst wouldn't think that above is wrong, for example. But then again, what moral does he have? Only his own moral. At least christian claim their moral is from God, a perfect and just being, that can be the standard for moral. An atheíst is only a falible human being. Books, movies, games, and television all involve the imagination, and the specific fantasy directs the child's imagination. In other words, the imaginary scenes and images in books and movies are not neutral. As with guided imagery, the child's feelings and responses are manipulated by the author's view and values. For example, the stories and books children read in the classroom are usually selected or approved by each state because their message teaches the new global values, and because they provide useful discussion topics for the manipulative consensus process. Good stories capture the heart, mind, and imagination and are an important way to transmit values. Books such as the Harry Potters series fit, because they reinforce the global and occult perspective. Page after exciting page brings the reader into the timeless battle between good and evil, then trains them to see the opposing forces from a pagan, not a Biblical perspective. In this mystical realm, "good" occult spirits are naturally pitted against bad occult spirits, just as in pagan cultures where frightened victims would offer sacrifices to "benevolent" spirits who could help ward off evil curses and other threats. Few readers realize that from the Biblical perspective, all occult forces are dangerous. But today, it seems more tolerant and exciting to believe this illusion than to oppose the lies. The words of Old Testament prophet Isaiah ring as true now as they did over 2000 years ago: "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil…." (Isaiah 5:20) Children don’t read Harry Potter merely to reach the conclusion and resolve the suspense. Many read the books over and over because they delight in identifying with the "good" wizards in this newly discovered world -- and sometimes even with the obviously evil wizards. They build memories based on felt experiences in an occult virtual reality, and they are desensitized to the danger. The talent and knowledge of the author makes this seductive world all the more believable. Just ponder these diverse bits of wizard philosophy: * Professor Snape who taught Potions: "I don’t expect you will really understand the beauty of the softly simmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, the delicate power of liquids that creep through human veins, bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses…." 1 * Two centaur’s views on astrology - "We have sworn not to set ourselves against the heaven. Have we not read what is to come in the movements of the planets?" …."Or have the planets not let you in on that secret?" 2 * "He is with me wherever I go," said Quirrell, referring to the murderous wizard Voldemort. "I met him when I traveled around the world. A foolish young man I was then, full of ridiculous ideas about good and evil. Lord Voldemort showed me how wrong I was. There is no good and evil , there is only power, and those too weak to seek it.... Since then, I have served him faithfully." 3 * Headmaster Dumbledore: "To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." 4 * Hagrid, the grounds-keeper at Hogwarts, telling Harry about the strange power that saved his life, "Happened when a powerful, evil curse touches you – didn’t work on you, and that’s why yer famous, Harry. No one ever lived after he [Voldemort] decided ter kill ‘em, no one except you…" 5 [Harry seems almost Christ-like, doesn't he, with his wound or mark, his psychic powers, and his victory over death and Voldemort?] Once introduced to spiritism, astrology, palmistry, shape-shifting, time-travel (the third book) and the latest version of popular occultism, many crave more. They can easily find it. In their neighborhoods and schools, our children are surrounded by peers who are fascinated by occult empowerment and would love to share their fun discoveries. Few children have the Biblical knowledge or discernment needed to evaluate good and evil or to resist such threats to their faith. It’s not surprising that Harry has suddenly soared to the peaks of popularity in schools across the country. His story fits right into the international program for multicultural education. The envisioned global community calls for a common set of values which excludes traditional beliefs as intolerant and narrow – just as the Harry Potter books show. The Biblical God simply doesn’t fit into his world of wizards, witches, and other gods. Feminist writer Naomi Goldenberg knows that well. In her book, Changing of the Gods, she predicts that "God is going to change…. We, women are going to bring an end to God. We will change the world so much that He won’t fit in anymore." She and other radical feminists must appreciate Ms Rowling’s part in this process. Of course, God will never change. But people, beliefs, and cultures do. And some changes, such as today’s cultural shift away from loving God to hating His truths, have occurred a multitude of times. The words Jesus spoke to His followers long ago now fit our times: "If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. . . . because they do not know Him who sent Me." (John 15:20-21) [b]Note that your own website incorporates stylized images of skulls, and features content like information on Kel's Lord Putidus scenario, which is hardly Christian in nature. How do you reconcile that imagery and content with your beliefs?[/b] One thing is to have images of pumpkins (not skulls, btw, but doesn't matter), another is to teach the occult. I don't pretend to hide the fact that the occult exists, the problem is teaching the occult disguised as a nice thing: "(...) what makes this more dangerous is that it is couched in fantasy language, and children's literature, and made to be humorous, and beautifully written and extremely provocative reading. and it just opens up children to want to have the next one. This is what is so harmful." You see, I can show a gun to a child, I won't deny its existence. But I wouldn't never do something like: «hey, it's a nice gun. It's fun! This is how you load it, and this is the trigger. Try it!». The least someone could do is to warn the child how harmful a gun can be. But you don't have that warning in Harry Potter, about witchcraft. Also, whichcraft, for those that believe in the Bible, is something evil in nature, there's no "good"/"white" witchcraft. It's like poison. No one would give a pill saying: swallow this. Probably it would be disguized in a drink or nice looking meal. Just like wichcrafting in Harry Potter books. [b]Harry Potter is no more malicious than any other children's literature - I refer you to the topic on fairy tales as a starting point. If you're going to try and protect people from any ideas other than wholesome Christian ones, I know of some good land in Montana where you can found your Bible madrassa.[/b] The point is: I don't hide other ideas. I'm not saying Harry Potter books should be banned or that there should be a law forbidding kids to read it. I just gave my personal opinion about HP and justified it. It's up to each one of you and parents to decide what is the best way to deal with it. Hey, as you said, I don't even censorship scenarios that are placed in the BoAC. [b]I love how "moral relativism" has become a dirty word, synonymous with "wishy-washy." Nothing could be further from the truth. Moral relativists merely recognize that there is no assertive superhuman source of authority in the world other than those which humans themselves construct. As such, morality is dependent on the social contract, an institution far older than human conception/perception of any god(s), and one composed of cummulative human experiences in what works as a society and what doesn't. Tradition and the law. Boil down all cultures, and there are some pretty universal tenets: an aversion to killing, stealing, cheating, etc. Nothing relative there.[/b] Which would make everything aceptable, as no one has a "better" moral than other. Althought atheíst seems to have better moral than christians, when they accuse them of being narrow minded, etc. But this subject would take a whole new topic to be discussed, so let's not get started. ;) [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 02:10: Message edited by: Overwhelming ] -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:45
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quote:No. I just think that backing up your opinions with other authors' opinions would contribute to a stronger argument. That basic academics. Plus, being not a native english speaker, it makes it easier for me to express my opinion, using others' words with similar opinions. EDIT: About the example you gave, at least it doesn't hide anything from the reader (specially children). It even warns about it. It doesn't disguise it and make it look like a "good thing"(tm). [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 01:48: Message edited by: Overwhelming ] -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
E Equals MC What!!!!
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:47
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quote: -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:51
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quote:That last part was only related to the moral relativism subject. :P [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 01:52: Message edited by: Overwhelming ] -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
E Equals MC What!!!!
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:52
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I know. It was an (evidently unsuccessful :( ) attempt to be funny. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
Agent
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 01:55
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I think you're funny Ash. Overwhelming: I can't be bothered to argue with you at the moment, but I might just bring up a point: what would you say if Harry Potter doesn't have any hidden occult-teaching agenda, that HP was created just to make the author and publisher rich/famous? -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 02:04
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quote:I'm not even saying that there is an hidden occult-teaching agenda. The fact is that there is an hidden ouccult teaching and all the problems mentioned above. If it's intentional or not... Well, it's not up to me to judge. -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Law Bringer
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 02:13
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I am once again overwhelmed by waves of laughter. Please don't tell me you're serious. It's one thing to be in favor of fundamentalism, it's quite another to go on witchhunts in the twenty-first century and claim fantasy to be satanic in nature. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 02:37
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quote:Your reaction is a typical one. Justify your opinion, instead of just calling others ridiculous. By the way, where did I say fantasy is satanic in nature? -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Law Bringer
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 02:52
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quote:I will attempt to justify my opinion that the banning of literature can under no circumstances be of benefit to our society. It will take me a while to compile the arguments though. Edit: Or what opinion did you actually mean? It is only this one that I was expressing when I responded, you know. [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 02:53: Message edited by: Arancaytar. You Owe it to the Door. ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 03:10
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quote:*sigh* Let me quote myself: quote: -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Triad Mage
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 03:13
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It can glorify the occult all it wants, because magic and witchcraft aren't real. Kids know that. What about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? Isn't that just as occult? Kids are not stupid. It's just a book. I fail to see the harm that this brings. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 03:36
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quote:Imaginary (or virtual) experiences and well-written fantasies can affect the mind and memories as much, if not more, than actual experiences. Designed to stir feelings and produce strong emotional responses, a well-planned myth with likeable characters can be far more memorable than the less exciting daily reality -- especially when reinforced through books, toys and games as well as movies. Small wonder Harry's fans have been counting the days until their next fantastic journey into Hogwarts' classes on sorcery, divination, potions and spells. Each occult image and enticing suggestion prompts the audience to feel more at home in the dark, paranormal setting. Children identify with their favorite characters and learn to see wizards and witches from a popular peer perspective rather than from God's perspective. Those who sense that the occult world is evil face a choice: Resist peer pressure or rationalize their imagined participation in Harry's supernatural adventures. The second choice may quiet the nagging doubts, but rationalizing evil and justifying sin will sear the conscience and shift the child's perception of values from God's perspective to a more "comfortable" cultural adaptation. Even Christian children can easily learn to conform truth to multicultural ideals and turn God's values upside down - just as did God's people in Old Testament days: "But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward." Jeremiah 7:24 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness.... Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:2-21 Immersed in the values taught at Hogwarts School for Witchcraft and Wizardry, children become spiritually blind. They lose their natural aversion for the devious spirits represented by the creatures and symbols in this eerie world. Caught up in the exciting story, they absorb the suggested values and store the fascinating images in their minds -- making the forbidden world of the occult seem more normal than the Kingdom of God. Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 This inner change is usually unconscious, for the occult lessons and impressions tend to bypass rational scrutiny. After all, who will stop, think and weigh the evidence when caught up in such a fast-moving visual adventure? Fun fantasies and strategic entertainment has a special way of altering values, compromising beliefs and changing behavior in adults as well as in children. This learning process has been named "edutainment" -- a favored way to train multicultural citizens for the envisioned 21st century community. Its power to influence beliefs and behavior is illustrated by today's marketing firms which spend billions on entertaining ads that touch emotions, ignore the facts, yet motivate people to buy the product. "Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, and revive me in Your way." Psalm 119:37 The main product marketed through this movie is a belief system that clashes with everything God offers us for our peace and security. This pagan ideology comes complete with trading cards, computer and other wizardly games, clothes and decorations stamped with HP symbols, action figures and cuddly dolls and audio cassettes that could keep the child's minds focused on the occult all day and into night. But in God's eyes, such paraphernalia become little more than lures and doorways to deeper involvement with the occult. In contrast, He calls a person "blessed" who - "walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful [mockers]; "But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. Whatever he does shall prosper." Psalm 1:1-3 It might be hard to escape the symbols that remind people of Harry. His words and phrases help fuel today's cultural transformation: The mainstream media uses the word "muggles" to deride those who don't want children to read Harry Potter books. "A columnist from the Chicago Daily Herald used Harry-Speak.... He said that a particular NBC Olympics commentator was the 'dementor of the sports commentators.'" "Coeur d'Alene, Idaho is going to name this year's snowstorms after the Harry Potter characters. The first blizzard of the year will be called Albus...." The implied source of power behind Harry's magical feats tend to distort a child's understanding of God. In the movie as in the books, words traditionally used to refer to occult practices become so familiar that children begin to apply the same terms to God and His promised strength. Many learn to see God as a power source that can be manipulated with the right kind of prayers and rituals -- and view his miracles as just another form of magic. They base their understanding of God on their own feelings and wants, not on His revelation of Himself. Blind to the true nature of God, children will synthesize or blend Biblical truth with the pagan beliefs and magical practices demonstrated in the Harry Potter movie. In the end, you distort and destroy any remnant of true Christian faith. For our God cannot be molded to match pagan gods. “For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water." Jeremiah 2:1 God tells us to "train up a child in the way He should go." It starts with teaching them God's truths and training them all day long to see reality from His, not the world's perspective. To succeed, we need to shield them from contrary values until they know His Word and have memorized enough Scriptures to be able to recognize and resist deception. Once they have learned to love what God loves and see from His perspective, they will demonstrate their wisdom by choosing to say "no" to Harry Potter. “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7 While some argue that Harry Potter and his friends demonstrate friendship, integrity and honesty, they actually model how to lie and steal and get away with it. Their examples only add to the cultural relativism embraced by most children today who are honest when it doesn't cost anything, but who lie and cheat when it serves their purpose. "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased [depraved] mind, to do those things which are not fitting.... They are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:28-32 -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Bob's Big Date
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:00
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Someone has got to teach you that there's inherent dishonesty and disingenuity in attempting to drown a conversation. I'm going to respond to you bit for bit, because I think you've made it intentionally difficult to do so and thus tried to force a conversational high ground, and as a debater and conversationalist I resent that. But it'll take time. Also note that I am going to be dealing with each paragraph separately, because frankly I do not have the time or the energy to absorb the latest gushing. quote: [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 04:56: Message edited by: George A. Custer & The SE Party ] -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
Triad Mage
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:16
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I don't really want to get sucked into this argument, but there were three things in there that really burned at me. quote:This is just complete bull. I don't know of anyone who has read the Harry Potter books and begun to think of witches, witchcraft, and wizardy in normal terms. Books are an escape. They let you drift to a fantasy world, and children know that. They're not the little impressionable porcelain dolls that you seem to think they are. And isn't the Kingdom of God supposed to be abnormal? quote:That's not what edutainment is. Edutainment is making learning fun, like Mario Teaches Typing, or Reader Rabbit, or the Magic School Bus. quote:Again - you give children too little credit. They can separate fanstasy from reality. Parents who seek to overprotect their children are doing their children nothing but harm when they enter the real world and have to live on their own. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
...b10010b...
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:18
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quote:So Easter eggs are satanic now? Good to know. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:21
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quote:I think you're the dishonest one here. What you claim is false. I like to justify my opinions and contextualize my answers. If you prefer a debate with short paragraphs but endless posts, that's your taste. Now don't start questioning a person's integrity without a good cause. -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Law Bringer
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:27
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Overwhelming, your posts are too long. Rather than containing any worthwhile content, they are merely long-winded; much like Alec says, I believe this is a deliberate attempt to drown the debate. Several points I will address: 1. quote:(attempted to cut down on the long-windedness) This, apparently, is your argument for the conclusion that fantasy is harmful. However, you take an unmentioned premise which I disagree with, spelled out below: "Imaginary experiences that affect the mind are harmful." Disregarding other effects (health effects of hallucinary drugs, etc.), which really don't apply to literature, I see no justification for this premise. 2. quote:The premise, here, is that "God's perspective" (or, more accurately, the perspective of the particular religious denomination you appear to belong to despite your previous claim to the contrary) is the correct one, and that taking another perspective - such as, say, that of an atheist or other religious faith, is harmful. This premise, needless to say, is equally false. 3. At various points, you quote a book that, while certainly a very ancient and at certain points worthwhile work of literature, holds no authority whatsoever in a meaningful debate. Not even Christians (take me for instance) unanimously endorse this book as an ultimate truth of any kind. 4. You go on to hold up the great impact that "Harry Potter" has had on our culture as a negative effect. Again, you base this on a false premise and circular reasoning (see point one). As a matter of fact, there are few popular works of literature that have not influenced culture to an extreme extent - take the Bible as an example. So has "Lord of the Rings". So have the plays by William Shakespeare. Is it your intent to label all works of literature that influence culture "harmful"? Or merely the ones that run contrary to your own opinion? [ Tuesday, July 12, 2005 04:28: Message edited by: Arancaytar. You Owe it to the Door. ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:32
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quote:It more than that. Just read what I wrote and quoted. The problem is not if children will start trying to make magic. But I've already talked about what the problem is, so I won't repeat. quote:You're 8 or 80, ain't you? Anyway, even adults can be influenced, the kids should be even more susceptible. But since it seems you didn't understand what the problem is (judging by the quote above), it's no use to talk first about who and how that problem can "hurt". quote:I'm talking about occult, not abnormalities. Anyway, as I stated, I'm presenting a christian point of view, opinion. If you don't care about God, Bible, Christ or whatever, then what I say doesn't apply to you. quote:So, you avoid to talk about the point of the text, just to point out what you think the term "Edutainment" means? General Custer would say you're being dishonest here. :P Anyway, we're talking about the same thing: using fun, attractive and a covered way to teach things. In this case, "bad things". quote:Already answered this. -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |
Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, July 12 2005 04:34
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quote:If "satanic" to you means "everything not God's/Christian"... -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00 |