Who are you? and What's your IQ?

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AuthorTopic: Who are you? and What's your IQ?
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #150
What about these two options:

1. Candidate has no experience or degree, but is very eager to learn.

2. Candidate has no experience but does have a degree, and is very eager to learn.

As everybody starts with no experience at some point a degree of some sort may help. Also many jobs such as teaching, social work, Medical jobs etc all require university degrees. Even trades such as construction and plumbing require you take a few years of vocational training.

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I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week.
CANUCKS
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My Style
The Knight Between Posts.
Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #151
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

Kel: I'm curious. These friends, did they just present their resume, get an interview, mention being a student at Cal and get hired? Or did they get these jobs through someone they met through attending Cal?
Closer to the former. The applications asked about current school/work status, so they listed their school.

I've never gotten a job by knowing someone.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #152
That suggests that either you don't know the right people, or that you're not the sort of person that people like to employ. ;)

Seriously, as VCH points out, this doesn't apply to every field. If you want to be a neurosurgeon, yeah, you need to study. What job are you looking for? Going by your subjects, I don't have a clue. Latin, Greek, English, Rhetoric, Physics. Linguist is the best I can come up with.

Aside from that, well, as I said, I have never even had to look for work. If I quit my job tomorrow, I have an open offer to take up an accounting job at a supermarket (despite having no training or natural affinity for the position whatsoever). If I talk to a few people, there's a decent chance I could get a job in a game studio. Failing that, I could almost certainly get a job as a painter. And this is all because of contacts I've made here in Canberra - where I've been living for all of 4 and a half months (option 1). My experience in radio together with a couple of references probably could get me another radio job elsewhere (option 2).

Why does it work for me and not you? I dunno. Maybe it's personality, maybe it's the difference between Australia and America, maybe it's being part of the Christian community, maybe it's something completely different.

(I suppose I could ask how many jobs you've gotten through your education, but that wouldn't be very fair)

If I was going to offer serious advice, I'd suggest finding out about ten people who work in the field you'd like to, and find out how they got there. You'll probably see a pattern emerge. But you probably don't need or want my advice.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #153
Who said I was looking for a job?

[ Friday, June 03, 2005 18:18: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #154
Well, it looks like we've found the missing variable. :)

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #155
I'm not sure, but I think you misunderstand me. I've gotten a number of jobs and I'm employed at the moment. I'm saying that applying for jobs has worked for me, to contrast with you saying that you've gotten all of your jobs through your contacts.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #156
Oh, whoops. My apologies.

Doesn't invalidate my point, of course. As I said earlier, I'm sure it works differently in different professions, and I still don't have any idea what sort of stuff you do.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #157
Most of the odd jobs I have done have been through contacts, but that was only setting up the interview. The rest was up to me.

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I'll put a Spring in your step.

Polaris
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #158
Contacts allow you to now what jobs actually exist. Doing more than that isn't really fair. But I wouldn't say no to help getting a job. Ash you should work at the game studio that would be sweet.

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I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week.
CANUCKS
RESPEK!
My Style
The Knight Between Posts.
Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #159
I'm the neat position right now where I get to write my own ticket. All I have to do is identify a project, write a grant application, and then do the project. Not only do I not have to apply for a job, I get to set my wage and if I am feeling ornery I can hire someone else to do the job if I feel I am unfit for the task.

And no, I don't really want to work either, despite currently working.
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
One Thousand Slimy Things
Member # 66
Profile #160
Since two out of three are doing it, I might as well.

I encourage Khoth to do cats instead of me.
I try to keep Saunders from doing anyone and fail on purpose.
I do pants.

3/3 served. /lurk

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Bending, but not in the way you might imagine.
Posts: 995 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
Profile #161
From my side of the Atlantic, the use on non-science, non-law, non-medicine courses seems to be purely that you are capable of getting through a degree (and three years of experiencing little responsibility, large amounts of outward cashflow and significant amounts of liver damage.)

A statistic I heard, the veracity of which I have no way of checking, is that 40% of university graduates are in a profession that has no relevance to their actual course. With this in mind and considering the steep increase in university places in the past few decades, I think the perceived toughness of the course and the university's reputation will become increasingly important. At least I hope so, given the university and course I'm going to if I make my offer.

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Voice of Reasonable Morality
Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #162
Do you mean the first job that 40% of uni grads have is unrelated to their qualification? Over a career this isn't surprising, but if this is the first job, I would be interested in hearing more.

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I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing
Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything
About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight
We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight
The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight

Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
La Canaliste
Member # 5563
Profile #163
First degree: Engineering
First job: R+D design engineer
Second degree: materials engineering
Second job: materials research
Next qualification: teaching
Next jobs: teaching materials and other engineering related stuff
Next degree: mathematics learning of engineering students
Subsequent jobs: statistical research in education

Currently doing very little to do with engineering: and I did very little stats in my first degree.
quote:
Originally written by I can wiggle them if you wish:

Since two out of three are doing it, I might as well.

I encourage Khoth to do cats instead of me.
I try to keep Saunders from doing anyone and fail on purpose.
I do pants.

3/3 served. /lurk

This is lies. He does invisible newbies. Invisible newbies should fear greatly.

[ Saturday, June 04, 2005 05:10: Message edited by: saunders ]

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I am a pale shadow of the previous self.
quote:

Deep down, you know you should have voted for Alcritas!
Posts: 387 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4445
Profile #164
I think education is necessary to give everyone a fair shake. Sure, you can work your way up the career ladder if you have the right contacts and you're an unusually likable person, but I think, Ash, that you're working from the assumption that you are the norm, when it seems to me like you are the exception. Employers can't afford to give everyone a chance, so people pay universities for an opportunity to prove themselves.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #165
I'm nearly at the end of my fourth year of studying maths. I suspect that I've enjoyed it a lot more than I'm going to enjoy my future life, and it's not like it'll be a disadvantage for getting a job. So my time will not have been wasted.

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

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Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #166
quote:
Originally written by PoD person:

I think education is necessary to give everyone a fair shake. Sure, you can work your way up the career ladder if you have the right contacts and you're an unusually likable person, but I think, Ash, that you're working from the assumption that you are the norm, when it seems to me like you are the exception. Employers can't afford to give everyone a chance, so people pay universities for an opportunity to prove themselves.
In terms of my chosen field, I am not an exception in any way. I started out doing volunteer work at a community radio station for close to a year, ended up getting a low-paying job at that community station, moved on to another not-quite-so-low-paying job at a different community radio station. If you look at the professional radio and TV personalities, at least over here, this is how most of them got started.

Of course employers can't afford to give everyone a chance. That's why you make sure you're the stand-out guy they can't pass up.

Want to run a business and have no contacts? Get the phone number of a small business owner. Cold call him. Explain that you're a young person who's interested in his profession and ask if he could spare a few minutes of his time to answer some questions. He may say he's too busy, but generally he'll be happy to help. Have some good questions handy. Ask him how he got into his position. Ask him what a good place to start is.

The least you'll get out of this is some useful info. More importantly, you'll have demonstrated to someone already in the industry that you've got initiative, intelligence and ambition. If there's some low-level job available (and there often is room for another person, they don't tend to advertise unless they absolutely need someone as it's quite a hassle interviewing applicants, etc), there's a chance he'll offer it to you on the spot. If not, you can still apply. He may well remember you.

Once you have that first foot in the door, make sure you do more than is expected of you at every opportunity. You'll get noticed and given more responsibility. Eventually, you'll probably get the chance to partner in the business.

When we were on the dairy, my Dad would have quite happily paid $50 cash-in-hand each day for someone reliable to come and do the milking in the evening. He never got anyone, because it was too hard to find someone good. The offer was made to a few of the local lads, but they didn't seize the opportunity. If they had, and they'd gone out of their way to help out with any other jobs that came up, they would not have stayed a one-milking-a-day employee for long. From there, they could have taken on share-farming, and worked towards getting a herd and farm of their own. And evenif they didn't know the opportunity was there, a phone call out of the blue to ask a few questions about running a dairy would have worked, not just with him, but with many if not most of the dairy farmers in the district.

If I'd wanted to keep cutting stone, the door was open for me to move from being an employee to a sub-contracter. From there, a business partner or my own stone-supplying business would have been a possibility.

Now, I don't like milking cows and I don't like lifting stone, so I took neither of those opportunities. But the same principle applies to a great many professions. If you want to make movies, move to Los Angeles and get a job as a Production Assistant (go-fer) on a film set. No education necessary, just a willingness to work your backside off.

Obviously this doesn't work for every kind of job. But it's still worth talking to people already in the industry. Find out how they got into it. I'd really strongly suggest doing this before spending the money on Uni.

Sorry, that was a ramble. I just don't see the sense in spending some of the best years of your life and a whole bunch of money on something when half the time there's a more efficient, cheaper, quicker option to get where you want to go.

VCH: While working at the game studio would be cool, especially considering they made one of my favourite games, I just don't enjoy the scut work of game making nearly as much as radio work. So even if I got an offer, I'd turn it down.

[ Saturday, June 04, 2005 19:42: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5823
Profile #167
Hi Marlenny. I'm Ty. I'm by far the best looking male here, but alas. I am not single at the current time.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Tuesday, May 17 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #168
I played Indiana Jones a couple of years ago, and when you finished it, it would say your IQ. The highest I got it to was 357, because I would play it over and over agin until I got it flawless. I think they got that stat by the amount of steps you took to complete the game.

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I'll put a Spring in your step.

Polaris
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #169
Creator, while your advice is probably good in general, there are many occupations that wouldn't even consider an applicant without a certain degree. This is especially true in large companies, where managers can not hire a person just because they like him. And, your advice works only for those with very good social skills. Not everybody can pick up a phone book and start calling random people.

Besides, the university time can be very fun and you never know when you might need something that you've learned there. As for the money, unless you go to an expensive private shool, the money spent on tuition is much less than the money spent on living expenses.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5823
Profile #170
To answer your other question.. according to iqtest.com

Your IQ is: 141

Your results have been emailed to you. Mail from our server sometimes gets filtered, so please check your bulk mail folder before requesting your results again. If you would like us to send your results again click here.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Tuesday, May 17 2005 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #171
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

Creator, while your advice is probably good in general, there are many occupations that wouldn't even consider an applicant without a certain degree. This is especially true in large companies, where managers can not hire a person just because they like him.
That's very true. Note that I have repeatedly said as much.

[quote]And, your advice works only for those with very good social skills. Not everybody can pick up a phone book and start calling random people.[/quote]Bull. Write out what you're going to say on a piece of paper beforehand. Practise with a friend. It's really not very hard at all.

[quote]Besides, the university time can be very fun and you never know when you might need something that you've learned there. As for the money, unless you go to an expensive private shool, the money spent on tuition is much less than the money spent on living expenses.[/quote]Sure. But it's my opinion that:

1) It's more fun to take time off to do something fun than to go to Uni.

2) It's more likely that you'll learn something that might come in handy later in life by doing stuff in the real world than by going to Uni.

3) Living expenses apply regardless, and there are things that are more worthy of your time and money than Uni (in general terms). Hey, maybe you could have just as much fun earning money!

All depends on what it is that you want to get into, of course. Some people, I think, just go to Uni because it's something to chew up the time while they're still deciding what they want to do with their lives.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #172
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

It's more likely that you'll learn something that might come in handy later in life by doing stuff in the real world than by going to Uni.
I particularly enjoy your consistent assessments of the value of information gleaned from universities vis a vis the 'real world' - e.g. same level of drunkenness, but less profound things to be said of and during it - while considering that your career depends primarily upon the high-learning-heavy skill of talking into a metal cylinder.

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The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #173
Well, it does depend on what one is studying. Frankly, I'm not entirely convinced that anyone learns anything of value from an Arts degree that they couldn't learn in a less stressful manner by reading a bunch of books in their spare time. Nor am I convinced that having read a bunch of books qualifies one for any particular form of employment.

[ Sunday, June 05, 2005 02:33: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4445
Profile #174
I see your point, Ash. It's not the way I would want to go, because, with a few scholarships, college can be one of the most carefree times of one's life. Plus, I want to go into engineering or architecture, and you've got to have a lot of education before anyone will trust you with experience (and rightly so, I might add!).

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:


[quote]And, your advice works only for those with very good social skills. Not everybody can pick up a phone book and start calling random people.
Bull. Write out what you're going to say on a piece of paper beforehand. Practise with a friend. It's really not very hard at all.

[/quote]I think the fact that you respond "Bull!" just shows that you can't really relate to people without social skills. The life path you describe sounds like it would require a near-constant exercise of social skills. You're right, social skills can be feigned, with effort, but I think you underestimate how that can wear a person down. I, personally, need time away from people whenever
I've been forced to deal with them for any extended period of time.

[ Sunday, June 05, 2005 05:38: Message edited by: PoD person ]
Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00

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