Coffe or Tea?

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AuthorTopic: Coffe or Tea?
Master
Member # 4614
Profile Homepage #75
Use the character map. Or just hold in alt, type in the certain code for the character you want, and then release it. You can find those codes on the character map too.

For example, é is alt-130.

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RIFQ
Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
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quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Accents on a Mac are dead easy. Type option-* followed by the letter you want to put an accent over, where * is one of the following:

option-` = grave accent (àèìòù)
option-e = acute accent (áéíóú)
option-u = umlaut/diaeresis (äëïöü)
option-i = circumflex (âêîôû)
option-n = tilde (ãñõ)

In this case, you want the acute accent over an E, so type option-E followed by E, to get é, as in "cliché". (Yes, this is the correct accent, not the way Spring did it. Who are you going to believe?)

People, I would believe Thuryl. Not me. I should know about the e's, because in French class at school we get in trouble if we do the wrong accent. My French teacher has tried to teach us all a way of doing it:

"Acute little monkey climbed up the tree (with the é's), than fell down to his grave (with the è's)."

Thats why I hate the French laungauge. Too complicated.

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Polaris
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I found spanish much more difficult to learn than French and I have tried most european languages. A little grammar is not so difficult when you finally have inculcated it into your mind.

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Law Bringer
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Spanish has a few more conjugations than French, I believe, but the words are all much more phonetic and there are fewer accents to remember. I haven't studied French, so I can't really opine (not that that has ever stopped anyone!), but why do you find Spanish more difficult?

—Alorael, whose personal opinion is that English has to be one of the hardest languages to work with. Conjugation is theoretically laughably easy, but it seems that practically every other verb is irregular, nothing is spelled the way it sounds, and words are borrowed blithely from any and all other languages.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Master
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What's a conjugulation? :confused: :P

Even though English is probably the hardest language to learn, it's also pretty flexible, and you don't need to worry about insulting people by saying "Yo es bonito" to a girl. :P

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...b10010b...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_conjugation

Essentially, tacking things on to a verb. So turning a word like, say, "burn" into "burned", "burns", "burning", etc. is conjugating it.

[ Saturday, May 21, 2005 13:35: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Master
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*looks at table in Wikipedia article*

Hmmmm, maybe I should have written "Tu eres bonito" for my Spanish thing. Shows what you get with only 45 days of rather nonintensive Spanish.

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Shaper
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I find the whole past tense thing easy. Its not that difficult when you have the hnag of it, I think. Examples below: (Past tense in brackets)
Run (Ran)
Jump (Jumped)
Walk (Walked)

See how easy it is?

Ok, so it was a pathetic post. I know.

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Polaris
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
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It does get more complicated than that. The past tense of speak is spoke or spoken rather than speaked for example, and it is bought rather than buyed.

Making the past tense a completely different word can be confusing for people trying to learn a new language.

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
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I currently speak French okay and understand it better than I speak it, and I am thinking of learning Spanish. I have a question; Is Spanish harder to learn than French?

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Warrior
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quote:
Even though English is probably the hardest language to learn, it's also pretty flexible, and you don't need to worry about insulting people by saying "Yo es bonito" to a girl.
I think English is pretty easy. You don't have to remember if the table, or the tv, or a pencil is supposed to be called he, she, or it. That takes out a whole lot of memorizing! It also makes conjugation easy, because if you'd like to use a verb with your table, you have to know what gender it is.

Another reason it's easy,
He is, she is, it is. He runs, she runs, it runs. There's a lot of not changing that goes on here.

Although we do have a lot of things like verbs that are irregular, that's because they come from other languages, so it's not like non-english speakers can complain because their word doesn't follow the rules! :P

I took 3 quarters of college German, which is about as close to English as you can get, and never could get the hang of having like 9 different ways of saying "the." I'm happy with one, thank you.

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Posts: 103 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Shaper
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quote:
Originally written by cfgauss:


I think English is pretty easy. You don't have to remember if the table, or the tv, or a pencil is supposed to be called he, she, or it.
The masculine/feminine words are easy, imho. With feminine words you pretty much just need to put a 'ne' on the end. I would give you an example, but can't remember any. Also, there are certain ways you have to say whether you like something a lot. If you love school, you could say 'J'adore le cole', or if you hated it, you could say 'Je le nest cole pas.'

I think. I bet that doesn't make any sense.

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Polaris
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by JadeWolf:

I currently speak French okay and understand it better than I speak it, and I am thinking of learning Spanish. I have a question; Is Spanish harder to learn than French?
It depends deeply on what you think is easy to learn. I myself think that it is very difficult to learn verbs. In fact I have studied spanish in 4 years and still do not know how to ask simple questions. This is due to spanish got many, many conjugations of each verbs and the most important verbs are mostly irregular too. And remember, you need a reason why you need to learn some language. I can not come up with any reason or situation where I could use spanish and therefore I got no motivation to keep on trying.

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Shaper
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If you now French Spanish will be easy to get a handle on.

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Warrior
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quote:
The masculine/feminine words are easy, imho. With feminine words you pretty much just need to put a 'ne' on the end.
You either didn't understand cfgauss' problem or have a very poor grasp of how gender works .

quote:
If you love school, you could say 'J'adore le cole', or if you hated it, you could say 'Je le nest cole pas.'

I think. I bet that doesn't make any sense.
The first sentence almost makes sense (It would be "l'école" iirc), the second don't. Even if you are trying to do a "litote".

[ Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:35: Message edited by: So Incredibly Sad ]

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quote:
Originally written by cfgauss:

quote:
Even though English is probably the hardest language to learn, it's also pretty flexible, and you don't need to worry about insulting people by saying "Yo es bonito" to a girl.
I think English is pretty easy. You don't have to remember if the table, or the tv, or a pencil is supposed to be called he, she, or it. That takes out a whole lot of memorizing! It also makes conjugation easy, because if you'd like to use a verb with your table, you have to know what gender it is.

Few languages actually make their verb agree with the noun in gender. Russian does in the past tense, but that's the only one I can think of. The Romance languages certainly do not.

quote:
Originally written by cfgauss:

Another reason it's easy,
He is, she is, it is. He runs, she runs, it runs. There's a lot of not changing that goes on here.

Yes, because those are all third-person singuar. English still has vestigial tense in the third-person singular (he runs, they run) and in the verb to be (I am, we are, he/she/it is). English also has somewhat deformed pronoun case (I see him, but he sees me). This is just enough in the way of conjugation and declension that it screws up non-European language speakers, but not enough that it can have the power of a heavily inflected language.

And memorizing our spelling is generally far more heinous than remembering arbitrary gender.

quote:
Originally written by cfgauss:

Although we do have a lot of things like verbs that are irregular, that's because they come from other languages, so it's not like non-english speakers can complain because their word doesn't follow the rules! :P
No, not usually. Irregular verbs tend to descend from Anglo-Saxon, which employed vowel mutation to mark tense, rather than adding an ending (I run today, but I ran yesterday vs. I surf the Internet today, but I surfed the Internet yesterday). And since Anglo-Saxon was the linguistic ancestor of our language, these are the only words that can be said not to have been borrowed from other languages.

quote:
Originally written by cfgauss:

I took 3 quarters of college German, which is about as close to English as you can get
In basic vocabulary, but not in grammar. German is heavily inflected, whereas English is about a lightly inflected as any Indo-European language.

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Law Bringer
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quote:
Originally written by N00BEN:

What's a conjugulation? :confused: :P

Even though English is probably the hardest language to learn, it's also pretty flexible, and you don't need to worry about insulting people by saying "Yo es bonito" to a girl. :P

A conjugulation is the conjugation of one's jugular. :P

quote:

'Je le n'est cole pas.'
Apart from the "l'ecole" bit... "I is not the school."

[ Sunday, May 22, 2005 13:25: Message edited by: 405: Moniker Not Allowed ]

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Warrior
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quote:
Yes, because those are all third-person singuar. English still has vestigial tense in the third-person singular (he runs, they run) and in the verb to be (I am, we are, he/she/it is)
Yeah, that's right. But it's not nearly as bad as it could be.

quote:
And memorizing our spelling is generally far more heinous than remembering arbitrary gender.
Yes, English spelling can suck! But I still think it's better than remembering random genders.

quote:
And since Anglo-Saxon was the linguistic ancestor of our language, these are the only words that can be said not to have been borrowed from other languages.
Anglo-Saxon came from somewhere, you know! In taking German, I noticed that a lot of our irregular verbs seem to be pretty much the same as their German counterparts. In fact, a whole lot of English words in general are pretty much German. Other than that we've got words from Latin, Greek, and, well, pretty much every other language that's ever existed!

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Posts: 103 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Bob's Big Date
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quote:
Originally written by So Incredibly Sad:

[quote]
quote:
If you love school, you could say 'J'adore le cole', or if you hated it, you could say 'Je le nest cole pas.'

I think. I bet that doesn't make any sense.
The first sentence almost makes sense (It would be "l'école" iirc), the second don't. Even if you are trying to do a "litote".

Are you nuts? The French use a double negative as a matter of policy - je ne X pas is the grammatically correct way of negating, as opposed to the common but incorrect je X pas.

Still, I do not get what "Je le n'est l'ecole pas" would even mean if you were to be charitable and respell it - "I it am not the school". I mean, you could drop the le (what the hell is it there for?) and properize the negation and conjugation - "Je ne suis pas l'ecole" - but that doesn't say anything that isn't already obvious.

Speaking French dead is a heinous crime!

ALSO: On the subject of remembering random genders, there's usually some kind of perverse rhyme or reason to gendering. If it's not based on spelling somehow (see French - words ending in -e and not -re are feminine, except for a few exceptions, and with a few extra), it's based on some deep-buried level on activity. Feminine nouns tend to become objects, masculine nouns tend to become subjects. (Masc. nouns do things to fem. nouns, basically.)

ALSO 2: Accents are something you get very used to when you speak the language. One makes the sound long, one makes the sound short.

[ Sunday, May 22, 2005 17:59: Message edited by: Custer XVI ]

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Shock Trooper
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In latin, abstract nouns are pretty much always feminine. (i.e -itas, -itatis, and -os, -onis)
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Shaper
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I know my French is bad. I don't know why I even took the subject. But I had French period 6 today and most of it is still fresh in my mind, so here goes (I've corrected the I hate school part):

J'aime l'école -- I love school

Je déteste l'école -- I hate school

L'école est pour les idiots -- School is for fools

That looks better. I remembered the negative way of saying something:

Je n'aime pas courir -- I don't like running

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Polaris
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Warrior
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quote:
Are you nuts? The French use a double negative as a matter of policy - je ne X pas is the grammatically correct way of negating, as opposed to the common but incorrect je X pas.
I didn't say anything about the negative and I hope "je X pas" isn't that common. "Litote" is an understatement, for example saying "je n'aime pas l'école" to say that you hate it.

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Law Bringer
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English requires you to know three forms of a verb: the present/infinitive (speak), the past tense (spoke), and the past participle (spoken). Everything else almost always follows simple rules. The exception is "to be" but that verb seems to be highly irregular in every language. Have/has is a little weird too, and I'm sure there are others (spelling often changes even if pronunciation is regular, but verbs are largely simple to conjugate.

For instance, if you have an infinitive, that's the present tense for everything but third person singular, which is formed by adding an 'S' to the end. Present participle is formed with an added "ing." Past tense is all the same, and past participle is either used as an adjective and not changed or in a perfect tense and conjugated by the form of "has" used.

The fun is figuring out the three essential conjugations. Which go with lay and which with lie? Why is it bought for buy?

—Alorael, who doesn't have any trouble figuring out the gender of a noun that's already written or spoken. In Spanish, O is masculine and A is feminine, generally. Words that end in something else are a tossup. The question is when you know a word ends with one or the other but can't remember which. Mochilo or mochila? Carretera or carretero? You usually can be understood either way, but it can be the difference between sounding like a stupid American and sounding like a less stupid American.
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And then there's el dia. Darn holdovers from Latin's fifth declension.

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