The end of the stupidity.
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Monday, February 21 2005 15:17
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:o Ok, mods, fellow members, and everyone, please be forgiving, keep my prior good behavior in mind, and bear with me for just a moment. I really don't want to start any trouble, or get involved in a flame war of any sort. In a way I feel that my personal integrity is being challenged (however ineptly), and I simply want to put some issues to rest, and move on. What happened was this: the member "genoforge" posted a link to his website, on which I found a piece of my own artwork, posted without my permission and without any credit given to me. He also used the same picture in his profile on this forum. My discovery of this, and my immediate aggravated reaction, is in this thread. Now, for the record, he has taken down both copies of the image, but has added the following to his web page: quote:(Each repetition of "THE MONSTERS JAWS" is, on his site, a link to my web page, because I had complained that he had taken an image from my site and not even linked to it, despite obviously liking it so much.) I am going to respond to this in the case that anyone actually sees what this kid wrote and believes him; not for the purpose of arguing with him, but to protect my reputation on these boards as a truthful person. 1. He did not ask for my permission, ever, and certainly not on my forums, as he claims. The only posts he has made on my forums are the following: quote: quote:All I see is "i like the art" and that does not constitute "may I please use this picture on my web page?" I also see a heck of a lot of unnecessary hostility toward my other visitors. The fact that my drawing just happened to be on his computer certainly does not excuse him, because in order for it to get there he had to download it despite my rather blatant warnings against such action. 2. Ten minutes a week? Just because I was curious, I timed myself while fixing his main page. Time: six minutes, 42 seconds. Good God Almighty, looking at his code made a little part of me die. "genoforge," "UR-DRAKON," whatever your name is, I am hereby offering to code your web page for you, for free. This is a one-time-only offer which I am making due to the fact that most 12-year-olds cannot afford my regular rate, and because I would really like to lance this festering boil on the buttocks of the internet. My offer includes a custom background and graphics that I will make for your use. The only price is that you give me acknowledgement for my help and not use any images of mine that I do not expressly give to you. 3. He did not say, on the "History of Dragons" page, that he did not write it. No such clarification was given. I would link to it now, but it has mysteriously (and with rather guilty timing) disappeared from his site. That is all I have to say about this. I must address one more topic, and that is the blind defense provided by the aptly-named "loser3." quote:(And another post, found here, that does actually hold a single fact: barley does, indeed, have a better grasp of HTML than does genoforge.) My single response to this post is to illustrate that my copyright notice is not at all hard to find. At the top of my artwork page reads, in normal-sized text, the following: quote:Additionally, every one of my pictures is presented with a text copyright notice at the bottom. That sums it up. Once again, please forgive me for posting something which might seem like a waste of time to everyone but me. Note that this would not have been necessary, but the original post was locked before I could even talk to genoforge about this, thus prompting him to post an all-caps rant of lies on his own web site, followed by spamming links to my page, and I fear the reactions of anyone who comes across me in that way. Libel from a 12-year-old...it's sad, but in the days of the internet, it could happen. *shudders* Mods: PLEASE give me a chance to reply to you at least ONCE before you decide to lock this. I only started this thread because there was no chance for resolution in the other one, and now some kid is smearing my name on the web. :( Thank you, one and all, for your time. (Translation for loser3 and genoforge, in their own language: "rofl pwned u n00b, omgwtflolbbq d00d lololololol!!!!1") -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Monday, February 21 2005 16:11
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Genoforge and loser3 are brothers posting from the same computer. Cavanoskus> Genoforge's actions, while annoying, do not truly constitute libel or hurt you in any way. In fact, they're just pathetic whining. Furthermore, your attempt to call him out here will likely only result in more spam and, inevitably, locked threads, with no favorable conclusion. Arguing with the brainless is futile. Unless you have a particularly compelling reason for this discussion to continue, I would rather it cease immediately. [ Monday, February 21, 2005 16:13: Message edited by: Imban ] Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4942
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written Monday, February 21 2005 16:18
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Um... out of curiosity, (I am not trying to pick a fight or anything) how come Kelandon's case got so much attention, and Cavanoskus's case is just kind of overlooked? I am just curious, and I am not trying to start trouble. -------------------- Wham Bam Shizam Posts: 247 | Registered: Monday, September 6 2004 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Monday, February 21 2005 16:23
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Overwhelming was openly refusing to remove Kelandon's files, despite Kelandon's request. This is, in fact, actual wrongdoing. On the other hand, Cavanoskus's action upon seeing her stolen art was to take it to the boards. As reported in this post, it was taken down and replaced with generalised whining. I see no further wrongdoing, and thus there's no legitimate reason for the Spidweb community to take any side at all on this matter. [ Monday, February 21, 2005 16:24: Message edited by: Imban ] Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 21 2005 17:14
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That "all of you or idiots" guy was the same as genoforge? I'm savouring the irony. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2238
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written Monday, February 21 2005 18:00
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Stuff like this makes me hate the internet. The point: look at his writing. Do we honestly care what someone capable of that thinks? -------------------- The critics agree! Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly! "I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin! Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Monday, February 21 2005 19:33
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quote:I find it more likely that they're brothers. Nevertheless, I'd like to wrap this up as soon as possible, so as soon as Cavanoskus responds... Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Monday, February 21 2005 19:42
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If they lack the brainpower to comprehend what you just wrote, then I do not see any point in dragging this issue very far. -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, February 21 2005 19:51
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You mean there actually are real siblings on the internet who use the same computer and aren't just convenient excuses, Imban? I'm stunned! I really am. —Alorael, who at least thinks that this is a good lesson in copyrights and plagiarism. And if Genoforge gets a free web designer out of it, who is he to complain? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4592
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written Monday, February 21 2005 20:37
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I find it amazing, Cav, that you helped the guy after what he did. Your karma, and that of a few thousand people, must have gotten up by quite a few karma units. It seems gf has taken it upon himself to start, willy-nilly, insulting people on the boards. And that looser guy is his brother? Man. Those two and the multiple posting female entity. What's up with new guys these days? -------------------- quote:Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga) Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2104
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written Monday, February 21 2005 20:48
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I remember starting a fight with myself on the old Ikonboards. Quite embarrassing to think of, really. -------------------- —Zxquez Zolohahni I eat blueberries in pie square. Xerch'de/Rate. I miss you, but I haven't met you yet. So special, but it hasn't happened yet. Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 21 2005 22:17
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Yes, I am stunned as well by your patience with a person who does not appear to have used a period mark in his life and also stole artwork from you. I mean, of course, the urge to correct that mess of an HTML code is strong, but still. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Monday, February 21 2005 22:46
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His "libelous" action was to claim he had been given permission after I denied having ever given him such permission; in other words, he called me a liar, and that is something I am not. I didn't actually help him yet, I just redid his page to see how long it took, although I WILL be amused if he decides to, without asking, "appropriate" the code I re-wrote. If he takes up my offer, yes, I will help him...why not? He took the art down, and I mean, he IS a kid; I'm trying to smooth things over here as best I can, and if placating a 12-year-old will add to my integrity (as well as provide more exposure), I'll do it. I can show him that us grownups aren't all bad, even if we say "no." None of this would have been necessary had the other thread not been closed before I had a chance to see this to its conclusion. I don't know how many of you are artists, but I am not going to stand for the theft of my intellectual property, and it is my duty as a self-respecting artist to make an attempt to see that such an infraction does not occur again, and to protect my reputation by proving that the other party was indeed a thief and completely in the wrong. Also, I am trying to set the record straight because I like this community and, foolish as this may be, I actually care what you all think. I know it's not incredibly likely that the illiterate ramblings of some kid will harm others' perceptions of me, but it HAS happened to me before, and worse. I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago, on another forum -- some kid (14 or so, with the screen name of TanNerX) downloaded my Azelstrad picture, threw colors and textures all over it with photoshop, erased my signature and replaced it with his own, and then posted it on his own web page (which he was brilliant enough to link to in his signature). I found out about this because some other member posted about how much they liked "his" picture, and during the course of the discussion, my stolen, altered art was posted, where I finally saw it. Now, that was CLEARLY a more blatant case of theft, but when I complained, a bunch of solicitous forum posters told me I was being "mean" and I should "just let him play with your drawing" and "it's doing no harm, don't make him take it down," "you should be glad he liked it enough to take it," and other such remarks. Naturally, I wasn't going to be robbed just because a bunch of people with no concept of copyright law told me I should be "flattered." So, after much ado, I FINALLY got the kid to take the picture down, and by the next day, he proceeded to flame me in every way possible, all over the board and his own page, and enough people actually took this kid's side that I got banned for a week. So, this whole incident just looked too familiar, and this thread was my attempt to let everyone know what was going on in case the flames started pouring in (which, of course, I would have done in the original thread, had it not been locked before I could assure that my rights were no longer being violated). I do not want to get banned from another forum because of another kid like TanNerX and a bunch of people all taking his side because he's a kid. (He, or she, actually...I remember that was never made clear.) Please at least give me some sort of hint that you might understand, before arbitrarily locking this topic just because you don't get where I'm coming from or why I would post this (which I did think was somewhat clear in the original post, which I am not entirely sure you read). The discussion may be over for you, but for me, it isn't over until I can be sure no harm has been done. Everybody: I'm sorry a past event led me to worry that you would take the side of an art-thieving kid just because he's a kid and "didn't know it was wrong" or somesuch. Thanks to everyone who stood up for me. [ Tuesday, February 22, 2005 22:37: Message edited by: Cavanoskus ] -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Monday, February 21 2005 23:33
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Cav, don't worry so. Nobody's going to ban you. What an idea. Your work is very good, so it's no wonder that theft has happened before; it will probably happen again. If, as a professional, you want to stop that, you'll have to put a lock on your pics to prevent downloading. If you don't protect yourself, girl, someone will always take advantage of you. That may also somewhat be due to the overall tenor of your site that looks and sounds more like a private homepage to me than a professional's exhibition. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5450
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 00:47
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I agree with Cavanoskus. By the way, what picture did he take? Also (regarding the kids 'rantings' page), who cares how long it him to read Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire? I like Harry Potter, and can't wait until July 16 when Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince comes out! 672 pages of bliss! :) Who's with me? -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 01:06
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I read the Order of the Phoenix in 24 hours, and though I could not put the book down in the meantime, I have seen better. :P The picture concerned was this I believe. http://www.monster-dungeon.com/dragonaxe.html -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 09:36
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quote:To be perfectly honest, it's not really possible to do this, since the pictures are downloaded to your computer in order to view them in the first place. It's possible to change things so that they can't be jacked by any random idiot, though. quote:The condescending attitude you seem to be showing him seems a particularly poor way to smooth things over, Cavanoskus. quote:Further, I'm slightly saddened that you think the administration staff here could possibly suck that badly. [ Tuesday, February 22, 2005 09:44: Message edited by: Imban ] Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 12:07
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Most so-called "download protectors" only work for Internet Explorer, are utterly ineffective, and are a general pain for the viewer. Preventing right clicks, etc. The worst thing is that images are not searchable. If someone steals a text from a writer, a week later you can google for it and he's pwned. Artwork theft is discovered mainly by chance (in most cases of course the thief is on the same community as the artist, which does give the artist better odds). Imban, patience is a rare virtue in the world. On these boards, I could name few people (ie: ef, and who else?) who could handle being yelled at in this fashion without the tiniest trace of condescension or annoyance showing. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 22:29
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With the help of my best friend/roomate who is a computer science major, I am working to find a way to make my pages harder to rip off. And yes, it IS a personal site, but that doesn't mean that my (quite clearly placed and understood) notice that my work is copyrighted and not to be reproduced without permission is not valid. quote:Considering everyone is telling me that he won't understand a word of what I've said anyway, I think the bit of condescension that has, admittedly, sneaked into my tone, would go right over his head. And besides, I'm offering him free help with his web page. quote:1. I apologized for being suspicious, but previous experience on forums has conditioned me to be terrified of mods. 2. Please don't take this as argumentative, but you don't seem to see where I'm coming from...I mean, it seems like you just want to cover this up ASAP and leave me without closure. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to fear that talking about an issue considered "closed" (whether fairly or not) by a moderator would result in some unforseen consequence. I want to resolve this issue just as much as you do, but considering I was the one wronged here, I should be allowed to seek such a resolution on my own terms. As far as I am concerned, I have done so, and all I'm looking for now is a bit of understanding from the community that: 1. he appropriated my artwork without permission. 2. he called me a liar when I denied that I had given permission. 3. he may, possibly, continue with some form of harassment or flaming, and if so, he might post defamatory things in this community that I would like to notify others, ahead of time, are not true. 4. everything I create is a part of myself, and a reflection of myself; my every work (regardless of quality) is a piece of my soul. I don't like finding pieces of my soul in places I didn't leave them. This does not feel good; not at all. I would even say it's a bit violating. Art theft cuts the artist the most deeply, and I seek your understanding of its importance. If a similar thing has happened to anyone here, if they read this, they would sympathize. The last thing in the WORLD one likes to hear in this situation is "just get over it," especially when untruths about you are still posted in a public place. [ Tuesday, February 22, 2005 22:30: Message edited by: Cavanoskus ] -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 22:54
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We know that he stole your stuff, that he's an idiot, that he unjustly called you a liar, and that whatever he might say about you is false. I'm not sure that there's anything that can be done on these boards particularly, though. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 23:03
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quote:All right. Thank you. That's pretty much all I wanted here. I guess he'll eventually take down the all-caps rant on his page. I was kind of hoping he'd take me up on the "free HTML" offer, but I guess now I'll have to occupy myself with homework or something instead. If he does take the code I already wrote when I remade his front page, I WILL let you know, just because it would be ironic and kind of funny. ;) -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5528
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 17:03
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first of all i am yet another kid using this computer or basically another brother of genoforge UR_DRAKON loser3 and of course blade one Im genoforge i cant get into my account right now so ill use dimitris (blade 1) ( im very sorry Cavanoskus that pic was put on my site purely by accident really it was just laying around my computer and i found it and put it on my site that was my original homepage then i stumbled upon your site and saw it was your art but at that point i was purely to stupid to take it out and i didn't call you a liar you arent from what i know of you are a good person i thought i asked you i wasn't positive and me and my several brothers and sisters share what is it paulsmith something i did make the account but i shared it with my brothers and sisters so the all of you are idiots thing was not by me but i was almost positive that i asked you i put all of those links on my page now that you saw them ill take them down and im not going to start flaming you its my fault after all so why should i be mad at you for protecting your own property it's a perfectly fare thing to be mad at me. and no thank you about your offer to help me im just making the site for fun and its a very low priority thing thanks for the offer though [ Wednesday, February 23, 2005 17:04: Message edited by: blade1 ] Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, February 21 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Thursday, February 24 2005 17:06
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quote:Thanks for the apology. I understand and I'm sorry if I said anything mean. ;) It's all better now, mods. Lock away, should it please you. -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Thursday, February 24 2005 18:33
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I was surprised that you could actually read that, but good job on the settlement anyway. -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, February 24 2005 22:01
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You eventually get a sense where punctuation ought to be, and then read as if it's there. It's a bit like reading words with only the beginning and ending letters in place and the rest jumpbled. :) Edit: *points down* I rest my case. | | V [ Tuesday, March 01, 2005 09:09: Message edited by: Daryl Mycroft [Arancaytar] ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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