Philosophies

Error message

Deprecated function: implode(): Passing glue string after array is deprecated. Swap the parameters in drupal_get_feeds() (line 394 of /var/www/pied-piper.ermarian.net/includes/common.inc).

Pages

AuthorTopic: Philosophies
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #25
1. Golden Rule, we all know what it is.
2. Try to stay open minded.
3. It has been said that there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. This is not true. There are no stupid people. They simply see things from a different perspective. In their mind, what they believe is right. In your mind, what you believe is right. If you believe you are right, tell those you think you are wrong what you think is right. If they don't believe you, it's really not your problem.
My uncle told me that third one. Not in those exact words, but something along those lines. He also threw in some swears and a bit of Italian, I believe.

[ Sunday, July 13, 2003 14:55: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ]

--------------------
My BoE graphics archive is finally getting started! Yay! I hope you like my graphics.My BoE Graphics
An absurdly fun Flash game- Refridgerator Raid!
---------
The Lyceum- A board for BoE. Yes it is. Really. Stop staring at me! Stop it, I say! Oh, sorry...
Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2300
Profile #26
My signature itself is my philosophy. Therefore I will, ahem, put it into a more appropriate context:

By the definition of 'average', half of the world's population are below average intelligence. Remember this the next time you take your car for a spin...

--------------------
Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." - Soviet infantry manual, 1930's
Posts: 267 | Registered: Wednesday, November 27 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 517
Profile #27
No, half the world's population is below median intelligence. Not necessarily below mean intelligence, although the whole world is a suffeciently large sample to justify a normal approximation, so you could be right. Just maybe.

My personal philosophy? Freedom isn't doing what you want, when you want, freedom is sticking to your principles when it's easier not to.

-E-

--------------------
Let them eat cake!

Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially.
Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #28
The "average" part is the inaccurate part. There are many types of averages, so the definition "half pop is below average" could be true in some cases and not true in others.
Bugrit.

--------------------
I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain.

Lair of Blades
Wise Forums
Desperance
Polaris
Bash
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #29
For that matter, define intelligence. If you consider non-sapient animals as well, then almost every single human ever to live has been above average in intelligence.

—Alorael, who would say that many of the most intelligent people he knows are actually well below the intelligence to body mass ratio. Does that mean that the ascetics are smarter proportionally?
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #30
Omlette, I fail to see how that defines "freedom". It's a better definition than, say, "the ability to do whatever you want", and "stick to your principals even when it's easier not to" is a good philosophy by itself, but it really isn't a definition. To my mind, anyway.

The first part of my signature is my philosophy... if it needs explaining, ask.

--------------------
And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

Incaseofemergency,breakglass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #31
Yeah...good blues...that's real deep...hard to explain...

Freedom is the ability to make choices. It's what the early african-americans didn't have a lot of, so they did what they could: created wonderful music which can be at the same time sad, grim, and celibratory, liberating unto itself. The inferior slaves produced many things the superior whites couldn't, isn't that interesting. Many people who didn't have the freedom they wanted, decided to get their freedom, and in the process did marvelous things. Many people with freedom take it for granted, do not use it. Freedom, like life (but nothing is as special as life), doesn't do anything on it's own. People have to use it for great things to happen. Everything anybody does or has done is due to their freedom or their lack of it. Freedom is what life is about, choices and our use of them. So many of us waste. Such waste of life, resources. If everyone strived for their full potential, what a world it would be. Now, we think how much makeup, or what clothes we wear matters. WTF!
Imagine those pictures of earth, just out of the atmosphere. Take a look, you can barely see any sign of human civilization. Zoom out so the whole earth is in view. You can't tell we even exist. Zoom out to the sun's perspective of earth. We probably couldn't even see it.
Zoom out to the edge of the solar system. Try to pick out earth from the other swirling bits of dust. Zoom out to the centre of our galaxy. There's no way we could pick out our star, let alone our piece of dust and our sorry asses. Zoom out further to the edge of the known universe. The feeling of insignificance sinks in. Why the hell does anyone give a **** about anything? No one can make a ****ing difference. It pisses me off when ****s do ****ing **** with their lifes, throw it away, commit suicide, be lazy, WHAT THE ****!!!? How can people do that? They have one life, no, there is no god as we think of one (perhaps I will explain this later), so they have one ****ing shot, and it's gone. Freedom is all about doing what you can. All living things will die, even dare I say "smart" ones like us. Some people ashame me, and I know that I am severely flawed...blues...blues...sorry...rant over.

--------------------
I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain.

Lair of Blades
Wise Forums
Desperance
Polaris
Bash
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2669
Profile Homepage #32
Existentialist.

--------------------
...
Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #33
smartass my views are more complicated than those which I can communicate effectively.

--------------------
I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain.

Lair of Blades
Wise Forums
Desperance
Polaris
Bash
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2242
Profile #34
- Before you act, take time to assess the situation.

- Certain video games are made for 1 purpose, to tick you off. *cough*HeroesoftheLancefortheNES *cough*

- He who laughs last laughs the best. (I think this was some famous quote, but it's good)

Can't think of any others.

--------------------
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes back into you."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, November 14 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #35
*laughs*

--------------------
I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain.

Lair of Blades
Wise Forums
Desperance
Polaris
Bash
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 517
Profile #36
Um, stranger, just a few points.

quote:
there is no god as we think of one (perhaps I will explain this later)
Yes, please do. Now.

quote:
Freedom is all about doing what you can.
That makes no sense. Everything we do is something we can do, so all that says is that everyone is free, in any circumstance. Even if you say freedom is doing everything you can, which I think you may have meant to, that's equally absurd, because no-one will ever fulfill 100% of their potential, unless their potential is massively limited-life's too short.

quote:
The inferior slaves produced many things the superior whites couldn't, isn't that interesting.
White people of that time certainly had art and music of their own. Sure, it was of a different type, but what does that signify? Just because my tastes in music are different to yours, in no way does one of us become superior to the other.

quote:
Freedom, like life (but nothing is as special as life), doesn't do anything on it's own.
I'd just like to quibble, here, that freedom cannot exist on its own. Freedom is a state that things can be in. Ditto life, which is something which can be had, but not something that can be independantly of anything else.

quote:
Freedom is what life is about, choices and our use of them.
So freedom is doing what we choose to do? Freedom is being enslaved by our desires? This is the bit I really object to, since it seems to me that as long as we tell everyone that it's alright, as long as you choose what you do, you're free, we can never be free. If you choose to enslave yourself to something, you aren't still free. Freely discarding freedom is still discarding freedom. I would prefer to describe freedom as doing what you believe to be right. What are you enslaved to then? When something causes you to do something you know to be wrong, why is that? It's because you've been trapped, and made to do wrong. So freedom is doing what is right.

I think that ought to clarify things for Sir David as well. At least, it ought to clarify why I said what I said.

-E-

--------------------
Let them eat cake!

Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially.
Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #37
But what is right? Mental conceptions can be just as enslaving as desires.

Djur suggests the buddhist path of non-attachment, which is a path of non-identifying. It is the path I've always felt most strongly drawn to, though it hurts the ego that has to let go.

--------------------
Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2300
Profile #38
My philosophy is just that: a philosophy. Therefore it does not necessarily conform to your strict rules of mathematics, you despotic fascists! IMAGE(Philosophies (2)_files/biggrin.gif)

--------------------
Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." - Soviet infantry manual, 1930's
Posts: 267 | Registered: Wednesday, November 27 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3124
Profile #39
Stranger: You may not have liked RentBoy's response, yet you did tack right along the existential course. Grab a red wine and try a little Camus or Sartre.... IMAGE(Philosophies (2)_files/wink.gif)

ef: What is right? Kant has a very good treatise on that which is basically called the moral argument in which he uses that to prove the existence of God. Very interesting metaphysical arguments.

Nobody opting for solipsism? You would be one of a kind. IMAGE(Philosophies (2)_files/biggrin.gif)

[EDIT] If you are unsure what solipsism is click this link for a wonderfully written short synopsis.

[ Tuesday, July 15, 2003 03:28: Message edited by: Onomatopoeia ]

--------------------
The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
Larry Hardiman
Posts: 110 | Registered: Thursday, June 19 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 517
Profile #40
Kant's moral argument? The one that says 'There is no reason to be nice unless a God exists who rewards us after we die, therefore a God exists that rewards us after we die.

The number one stupidest thing I've ever heard...

-E-

--------------------
Let them eat cake!

Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially.
Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3124
Profile #41
Kant did not word it quite that way. He started from the premise that man has a moral sense about him and then stated that the moral sense came from somewhere which he called God. Yes, it is arguable and quite easily. Perhaps not the best reference.

Equally arguable is Pascal's Wager, which is a fun exercise in logic though.

--------------------
The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
Larry Hardiman
Posts: 110 | Registered: Thursday, June 19 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #42
Some people here have had an interesting discussion of freedom, but I fear that they are trying to twist the meaning of an everyday word so as to ensure that it is given a morally positive definition. Surely it would be better to look at what we actually mean when we use the word in common English and set about determining whether it is a good or bad thing from there.

Traditionally, two sorts of freedom have been defined. There is an abstract sort of freedom, sometimes known as "free will", which stated rather broadly would appear to mean that we do in fact choose to do what it seems to us that we choose to do. It is hard for me to see any moral value, positive or negative, in this sort of freedom, as its presence or absence has no observable consequences.

A second form of freedom, which may be known as "liberty", could be roughly defined as a lack of external restraints imposed by one person or group of people on the choices available to others. (I add that these restraints must be imposed by people because I regard it as rather silly to describe one's inability to fly by flapping one's arms as a restriction upon one's liberty.)

This second sense of freedom, that of liberty, is the sense in which, for example, a slave or prisoner is deprived of freedom. The issue of how much liberty one should have in various areas of one's life is one on which there has been much discussion but little consensus. On the whole, I tend to regard allowing people to do what they want as long as there is no overriding reason not to do so as a rather good principle.

Now, let us move on to the discussion of solipsism. While I do not believe that solipsism is the only reasonable view of the world, I do believe that it is one that deserves more than a dismissive handwave in response. As I find Descartes' take on the issue unsatisfying in parts, here's my effort:

The sun will rise tomorrow.

What is the sun? Is it a seething mass of plasma 93 million miles from Earth, or a ball of burning coal hung from the sky, or a flaming chariot drawn by the gods, or even simply a figment of your imagination?

Don't bother answering that question. It's not important. What's important is that the sun will rise tomorrow.

You will surely have observed that if you look up into a cloudless sky during the day, you will see a patch of bright light. If you had done the same on any previous clear day (as you indubitably have on many occasions), you would have noticed that the sun was there then as well, and thus by the sheer weight of evidence you can reasonably conclude that if you do the same tomorrow you will see the same thing. Every time you looked into the sky on a clear day, the sun was up there somewhere.

Note that we still not said anything as to what the sun actually is, or how and why you perceive it. We shall have no need to do so in this discussion. We have simply observed that once in every one of the periods of time we perceive as a day, we perceive an object which we perceive as having certain properties (circular shape, a certain size, strong brightness).

These properties are essentially consistent every time we see the sun; if we were to look up at the sky one day and find that the sun had turned green or shrunk to a pinpoint of light, we should surely be surprised, and if we were of an inquisitive disposition we should surely look for some reason why this sudden change in our perceptions had taken place.

In other words, for the sake of this discussion, all you need accept is that the sun will rise tomorrow. You are, of course, at liberty to doubt this; the proof I have here provided is an inductive one, and much has been said about the shaky ground upon which any inductive theory of truth rests. Sometimes inductive hypotheses have indeed proven to be wrong, the classic example being the fact that the hypothesis "All swans are white" was disproven when black swans were first discovered in Australia.

Please do not for now debate the existence of swans or of Australia, or we shall wander far beyond the scope of this argument. Should you wish to doubt the existence of blackness or whiteness, I ask you to please look at the nearest black or white object you see, as I shall for the sake of this discussion assume that you believe sensory perceptions can in some sense (even if in a somewhat imprecise sense) be said to "exist".

In any case, the hypothesis that the sun will rise tomorrow is as good a working hypothesis as any which you may find, and we shall not get far at all in the world if we doubt such basic things. Whether you like it or not, you are not likely to function for very long as a human being unless you make certain assumptions, such as that prolonged dehydration impairs health and that the regular consumption of certain things perceived as fluids or moist substances is a suitable way to prevent such impairment.

Now that I have hopefully presented a convincing case that the sun will rise tomorrow, let us get on with the somewhat grander task of presenting an equally convincing case that you, my dear reader, are not alone in the universe.

In our discussion of the sun, we have already touched on the fact that we ascribe certain properties to an object; of the sun, we say that it is bright, that it is round and that it seems to us to rise and set in the sky every day. (You will note, at least if you find modern physics convincing, that the sun does not in fact "rise" and "set" as such; this is immaterial to our discussion, which after all centres on the way in which we perceive things.)

You surely also ascribe certain expected properties to other objects than the sun. Consider, for example, your computer. Never mind whether a computer is made of matter, or whether the electrical principles upon which it supposedly operates are accurate; what is important is that you know what a computer looks like and what it does.

You can by certain visual cues quickly determine whether any given object is one of those which is referred to as a computer. If you determine that it is in fact a computer, this will lead you to make assumptions about its other properties. If you plug a computer into a power socket and then press its power switch, the computer will be turned on, and an image will become visible on the monitor if there is one connected.

It may, of course, not do so; the computer may be defective, or there may be a power outage. Nonetheless, its normal operation is a property we may regard as typical of a computer. We can consider any set of an object's properties in this way, such that if we know that it has most of them it can be expected to have most or all of the rest; thus, when we see a monitor displaying an image, we conclude that the image is produced by a computer to which it is connected.

We may be incorrect in this assumption; the image may through some trickery have been projected onto the screen from elsewhere. Nonetheless, we can determine from our experience and from Occam's razor that this is much less likely than the simple alternative that the image is being produced by the computer. Of course, should we find that there is no obvious connection between the monitor and any computer, we may have to resort to more convoluted explanations for the appearance of the image, but there seems no reason to do so as long as the simplest explanation is open to us.

As it is with a computer and the image on a monitor, so it is with a mind and a body. I trust that you do not doubt that you have a mind (or perhaps that you are a mind, which boils down to the same thing). You perceive that you have a body; once again, whether this body consists of matter or energy or merely an extension of the mind is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You perceive that your body has certain properties or attributes which you can perceive: hands, feet and so on. You also perceive that by the operation of your mind, you are capable of causing parts of your body to function, and that these parts generally fail to function in the same manner unless they are operated by your mind.

Thus, if you see another functioning body before you which is fundamentally similar to your own and which your mind does not operate, the simplest (and therefore most reasonable) conclusion is that this body is operated by a mind other than your own.

In short, we can say that other minds exist with exactly the same degree of certainty as we can say that the sun will rise tomorrow, and we can do so without resorting either to metaphysical chicanery or to unproven assumptions about the nature of the world in which we live.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3124
Profile #43
Kant did not word it quite that way. He started from the premise that man has a moral sense about him and then stated that the moral sense came from somewhere which he called God. Yes, it is arguable and quite easily can be refuted through an exercise in logic. Perhaps not the best reference.

We could have lot's of fun debating all these. We could jump next to Pascal's wager, Paley's watch, and dabble in St Anselm.

--------------------
The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
Larry Hardiman
Posts: 110 | Registered: Thursday, June 19 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #44
Heh. I managed to split your double post.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #45
I re-read my long post and I came across as a jackass.
I'm sorry, I didn't say what I meant.
I'll just lie low a little.

--------------------
I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain.

Lair of Blades
Wise Forums
Desperance
Polaris
Bash
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3124
Profile #46
quote:
Heh. I managed to split your double post.
I wonder how that happened. I was editing the post and when it flipped back it had doubled. Weird...

--------------------
The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
Larry Hardiman
Posts: 110 | Registered: Thursday, June 19 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #47
Rubbish. You didn't come out as a jackass. I've been looking for something on Existentialism. It may not be the best translation, I was a bit hasty, nevertheless:

quote:
Sartre is the father of modern Existentialism.
It locates humans in a world without spiritual meaning, left by God. In this situation humans in contrast to animals have the possibility to sketch out their own existence and/or make their existence meaningful through action. This becomes a special challenge in situations which are catastrophic. Humans can be thrown into such border situations e.g. by social upheaval, natural catastrophes or wars. Also by interhuman and vital crises, be it separation, illness or death.
They are then left and condemned to the freedom of determining their actions on their own.

Freedom for Sartre is not thus a comfortably consumable gift, but a task which requires an effort to be carried out. The threat of emptiness (existential meaningless) and fear of that throw humans into despair, from which only action as such can save them.
Being responsible for my action means at the same time being responsible for the actions of others.

Sketching out your own existence in this fashion is what Sartre calls "authentic".
He defines freedom as the possibility of said sketching.

It should not be mixed up with the freedom to do what you want, which he sees as an indication of immaturity and irresponsibility.

Freedom as responsible organization of one's existence gives meaning to the past. Death ends the possibility of meaningful life organization.
Humans are then what they have achieved.


[ Tuesday, July 15, 2003 08:29: Message edited by: ef ]

--------------------
Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #48
Thank you.

ef: Registered: Jan 2003

I can hardly believe it, you'll get 1000 before June!
And I thought I posted a lot.

EDIT: 650!!!1

[ Tuesday, July 15, 2003 13:33: Message edited by: stranger ]

--------------------
I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain.

Lair of Blades
Wise Forums
Desperance
Polaris
Bash
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #49
That comes from RPing. Don't give it a thought.

--------------------
Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00

Pages