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Speculating about Avernum 4's plot in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #119
Lord Skylak, work on the spelling, man :P

Half a hole wrote:
For what it's worth, I got more of a sense that the vahnatai are adept at anything they turn their hands to simply because they have the time to perfect their skills. That's true for their warriors, who can face the best of the heavily armed and armored troops of Avernum and the Empire while essentially wearing tissue paper.

-If you speak with the Vahnatai in A2, they will tell you point-blank that they are more physically frail than humans, but have more of a tendency towards magic (think Elves). I think it was Bon-Ihrno himself that said that thier warriors were not as good, but they had more magical prowess. It was the vahnatai's MAGIC that beat the empire back. Avernum supplied the hardcore footsoldiers. Not to mention, all the vahnatai who were awake by that time were the most elite and powerfull vahnatai - the best of the best got woken up first. Speaking with the cook in A2 confirms this :P . Despite them being the greatest warriors, they're easy as all hell to kick around in A3, even on Torment difficulty with a singleton OR a party. The only thing that made the Vahnatai Warriors deadly was the fact they all knew magic. It's annoying when your opponents haste themselves and slow you, while thier magic-users summon swarms of monsters. As far as magic goes, Vahnatai have a stronger tendency towards it (all the vahnatai, the warriors, and even the regular "Vahnatai"'s you fight) know at least a few basic mage spells. The regular Vahntai's are the only ones you can really get an accurate reading of the race from. My reading was: They die in one hit from just about anything, and they can't do much of anything in melee. They can slow you, though (bastards). And they have higher Init than you would expect *Shrug* speaking of which, the warriors also have the ability to strike twice in a single round with Melee weapons. Also, the vahnatai have greater magical technology. But even assuming humans discovered all thier magic tech, they would still have a magic edge in that even the regular Vahnatai walking down the street can use Light and Bolt of Fire. So it strikes me that vahnatai basicly have the following:

Pros:
Bonus to mage spells, either starting with a few extra points of them or getting a few points as levelup (much like the Nephilim DEX bonus in BoA)Which will also give them the enhanced magic resistance they seemed to have, although a few plusses to the Resistance stat might also be warranted.

Bonus to Dexterity, parry or quickstrike, because they get two swings with a light weapon at once, get higher init, and higher defense starting out than a normal human. Note that they dont ever seem to get to throw two razordisks at once, however.

Cons:

Physically frail frame, low Hardiness/Endurance makes them easy to take down in a couple hits.

Light frame: Unable to carry much weight, unable to wear armor, unable to use heavy weapons (Basicly, they cant wear armor beyond what a normal, non Natural Mage would be able to cast spells in, and put a lbs. limit on thier melee weapons) if they use a heavy melee weapon, I'd say they'd lose thier second strike and the weapon would count as two-handed, and they cant use normally two-handed weapons (Pikes, Halberds, Greatswords) at all (Other than the Alien Blade as it's essentially a two-handed Waveblade, hence pretty light, albeit too large to use one-handed)

Slow learning: A 60 year old vahnatai in A3 was just a child, who had devoted all those years to learning spells, yet still barely knew Simulacrum and Capture soul (luckily, she could teach them to you ^.^) Hence, an EXP penalty would be in order, as with other non-human races, I believe.

(If anyone disagrees with my idea for handling thier pros/cons, lemme know)

Half a hand wrote:

While Erika slowly starts winning her battle with Rentar-Ihrno, I got more of a sense that they were evenly matched and Erika just happened to get the edge. Think of it as two chess grand masters or two great athletes competing. One wins and one loses, but it's not the same every time. Just like humans can really only reach a certain level of physical prowess, living things can only have so much magical might. Erika and Rentar have both hit that limit.

-Except Rentar was in her OWN fortress, the advantage of a defensive position, and she came into the battle with a pre-prepared magic shield, giving her a SIZEABLE advantage. Despite this, she was unable to harm Erika, and Erika was rending the shield apart and had almost finished it. *Shrug* open for debate, I suppose, but I beat the game just a couple days ago, so it's still somewhat fresh in my mind.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #11
Your correct as far as hard-coding goes, but it is possible to hard-code, just requires opening up the game first, and anything thats hardcoded in, when you change it, you need to change a million other things, typically. Which is why, if I understand correctly (not too hot a programmer myself) you go into the hard coding and redirect a few things over to outside files, copy some of the hardcode into those outside files, and make changes as you please, then bundle it up and send it out as a mod (if memory serves).
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #11
Your correct as far as hard-coding goes, but it is possible to hard-code, just requires opening up the game first, and anything thats hardcoded in, when you change it, you need to change a million other things, typically. Which is why, if I understand correctly (not too hot a programmer myself) you go into the hard coding and redirect a few things over to outside files, copy some of the hardcode into those outside files, and make changes as you please, then bundle it up and send it out as a mod (if memory serves).
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Need some help... in Geneforge Series
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #0
I tried playing Geneforge as an Agent, found it extremely hard to do for some reason. Theres just something in the game thats not clicking for me. I tried it with the other two classes after that, and while they're pretty easy to get by with, something in the game isn't clicking for me like the Avernum series did....anyone got any ideas on that?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Need some help... in Geneforge
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #0
I tried playing Geneforge as an Agent, found it extremely hard to do for some reason. Theres just something in the game thats not clicking for me. I tried it with the other two classes after that, and while they're pretty easy to get by with, something in the game isn't clicking for me like the Avernum series did....anyone got any ideas on that?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Root of all evil in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #242
It takes you three hours? Feh, you should see two ADHD people talk :P it takes me about three MINUTES to move from something like the Root of All Evil discussion to something as different as how the grass sways in the wind in Neverwinter Nights *Shrug* but hey, it was just a suggestion, ST. I figured since you and Thur were pretty much dominating the thread, it would be best if you started a new thread to involve other people who want to discuss relgion/science.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Idea for Scenario in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #0
I'm thinking about making a scenario after I beat the rest of BoA's scenarios and I wanted to know what you guys thought of it. The scenario will be named "X Incantatrix" and will be about a lone adventuring mage (You) that wishes to become the arch-incantatrix (taking place sometime before A3, probably just before or something, since Erika seemed free at that time) I have the plot and all rough-sketched in my mind, I'm just wondering how a single-character plot would roll with the community, and whether or not people would want to play someone who aspires to be the greatest mage in Avernum by challenging Erika *Shrug*

Edit: It will involve a large number of the cast from the normal storyline, of course, and I imagine any plot-conflictions with the official storyline would grate on peoples nerves. I havent beaten A2 yet, and I dont want the story spoiled for me, but I also don't want to not know if there something important in A2 that I dont know :\

[ Tuesday, February 01, 2005 09:33: Message edited by: Solodric ]
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Root of all evil in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #240
I understand, but you two ARE getting offtopic. may I suggest starting a thread of your own, since you two both seem to like using the extended posts with the qoutes in them?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
I'm getting butchered. (A Small Rebellion) in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #4
Bah, ye bloody pansy! You see a legion you SLAY it, dont you know that?! It's the Code of Adventurer's!

Rule one of THE CODE: Any and All Sidequests that do not result in negative effects greater than reward shall be completed.

Rule two of THE CODE: (Read carefully) All enemies encountered in need of slaying shall be slain promptly. Remember, your adventurer's, you dont work for Nextel or Microsoft, therefore you must follow rule 3...

Rule three of THE CODE: All slayings and sidequests must be completed promptly without making people wait more than 30 minutes for thier scheduled decapitation.

Rule four of THE CODE: Once you are made aware of a problem or any other type of non-normal event, you are bound by this code to solve/fix/resolve/investigate said occurence until any and all leads have been followed up on. Refer to rules one and two.

Rule five of THE CODE: You must emerge victorious from every scenario, you MUST WIN every battle. This rule is optional if you have already lost all your equipment and are in the process of bleeding to death in a corner while surrounded by 50 enemies all twice your level, in which case, Rule Two of the code comes into play and you are bound to eventually return with a new party and exact brutal vengeance via mass genocide butchering.

Edit: Okay so that's not the code of adventurer's, in fact the code of adventurer's just says "Fix all the problems and beat the scenario" but if I want to stretch it out over fix codes I can do that....right? :P

Note: The Code of Adventurer's is an existing oath which was taken by all adventurer's graduating from a certain guild in Europe, back in the Dark Ages.

[ Tuesday, February 01, 2005 09:23: Message edited by: Solodric ]
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Announcment! get your Player Character concept made! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #24
The character I front for random selection is Solodric, a human mage in a black trench coat and hat (adjust to medi-evalness as needed :P ) holding a sword at his side. I WILL get that screenshot of the pic I need, really I will :P but basicly, it's a longsword with a very small guard (Just enough so keep fingers from slipping onto the blade) brown handle, wrapped in leather, a white blade (Contrast to black clothing :P ) which he holds at his side. On a side note, he has no visible skin - long shirt, coat, gloves, cant see his face beneath the shadow of his hat, etc.,
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Speculating about Avernum 4's plot in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #113
That or maybe Jeff doesnt find politics important enough to taint his games worthiness. Then again I haven't read much about Jeff or what he says in interviews, so what do I know? :P
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Root of all evil in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #238
Written by Skeletony:
"We're talking about SCIENCE here!"

No, no, we're talking about the root of all evil, and while it may be necessary to explore religion and science to find the root of all evil, we're getting really offtopic.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Root of all evil in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #237
I'm aware of that, I just wanted to wipe away any term-confusion before another semantics argument broke out. You know.....pre-fight cold shower type thing? :P
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
A question about Skribbane in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #28
First coupla chews doesnt do anything addiction-wise. As far as the samples in Kriszan....I'll have to re-search (or research) the area. Sorry. Skribbane really isnt that important anyway.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Root of all evil in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #234
I'll handle this one, Skeltony :P . Alrighty Thuryl, first off, the cloning examples a bad idea. I'll explain why: If you took a newborn baby and cloned it before it had any experiences, then the clone would be exactly like the newborn baby, and would hold all the same virtues/viewpoints as the newborn baby, until thier experiences differed as they grew up (Assuming they differed) Now the way cloning is done, is you take someones DNA and put it into a fetus. I think where your making the mistake is in assuming we can make adult clones, which we cannot. The brain has to go through the development stages. Now assuming technology advances, and we learn how to do a full brain-scan and copy over absolutely everything, yes of course we'd have an exact duplicate. Assuming your speaking solely from a normal cloning standpoint, rather than a "Copying" standpoint, which we cant do yet, if you took all of someones DNA while they were an adult and put it into the fetus, it would be the exact same as taking the DNA from a newborn baby with the notable exception that said DNA would have all the ravages of time, especially from Viruses (Not diseases in general, viruses in specific) changing the DNA or damaging it. Other than that, they would not retain anything of the DNA doners past experiences. Now, on to a related issue: If a person lost ALL of thier memories, entirely, they would still retain all of thier normal knowledge, opinions, skills, etc. Why? Because it's in a different part of the brain. I hope that clears up any/all confusion on the physiology of this issue, please continue your debate you two :P
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #9
Heh. World-specific skills are exactly what I'm wondering about changing in BoA. For example, what if I wanted to do a non-magical medieval setting? *shrug* by the way, while it's true that the game is not open-source, many non open-source games have had mods made for them in the past. Is it impossible to make a mod like that for BoA? For example, people have made tons of mods for Diablo II, one of which was actually set in a modern suburb if I remember correctly (though it was supposed to be rather buggy) Would things like that be against the rules with BoA?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #9
Heh. World-specific skills are exactly what I'm wondering about changing in BoA. For example, what if I wanted to do a non-magical medieval setting? *shrug* by the way, while it's true that the game is not open-source, many non open-source games have had mods made for them in the past. Is it impossible to make a mod like that for BoA? For example, people have made tons of mods for Diablo II, one of which was actually set in a modern suburb if I remember correctly (though it was supposed to be rather buggy) Would things like that be against the rules with BoA?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #6
Of course I'll start small, I just wanted to know the editors capabilities, since a lot of my scenario ideas hinged on them. I just wanted to know whether or not, if the editor proved to be incapable of something, it would be patchedf by company or community *shrug*.

And yes, thanks again for the Edit button, which you've simultaneosly pointed out two me in two different topics ^.^ Oh, a couple more questions. One, is it possible to set some sort of notifier for whenever someone posts in a topic you posted in?

Also, how would a person go about making a special skill like Vahnatai Lore, such as Spider Lore (Something I need for the first scenario I intend to make)? Give the party a Special Item for each level they're supposed to have, or maybe give them a modified "Dread Curse" that instead lets them do special things?

Healer detects normal Dread curse, while whatever it is they're deciphering senses the Spider Lore dread curse? I want some way to mark it on thier character sheets...

[ Monday, January 31, 2005 05:58: Message edited by: Solodric ]
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #6
Of course I'll start small, I just wanted to know the editors capabilities, since a lot of my scenario ideas hinged on them. I just wanted to know whether or not, if the editor proved to be incapable of something, it would be patchedf by company or community *shrug*.

And yes, thanks again for the Edit button, which you've simultaneosly pointed out two me in two different topics ^.^ Oh, a couple more questions. One, is it possible to set some sort of notifier for whenever someone posts in a topic you posted in?

Also, how would a person go about making a special skill like Vahnatai Lore, such as Spider Lore (Something I need for the first scenario I intend to make)? Give the party a Special Item for each level they're supposed to have, or maybe give them a modified "Dread Curse" that instead lets them do special things?

Healer detects normal Dread curse, while whatever it is they're deciphering senses the Spider Lore dread curse? I want some way to mark it on thier character sheets...

[ Monday, January 31, 2005 05:58: Message edited by: Solodric ]
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Speculating about Avernum 4's plot in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #104
Right, sorry for the lack of paragraphs, thanks for the note on the Edit button.

While it may be true that Rentar's clan fled, I seriously doubt they will stay gone for long. After all, look how quickly they managed to get those plagues going? Just a few years after they were woken up!

Anyway, I wasn't saying this was likely to be provided, I was just saying what I thought would make a badass Avernum game is all :P by the way.....who's saying A4 won't have just as much Editor-power as BoA? He's already decided to make A4, and theres no way in hell, frozen over or not, people will let him release it without a feature the old game had. And before you throw "What about the spells that A3 deleted out of A2 at me" which you might do, I dunno, allow me to point out most of those were replaced :P

Personally, I sincerely hope that A4 will have just as powerfull an editor. If not, well.....people are ALREADY going crazy asking for a Vahn race in BoA, so they can make cool scenarios with them :P The question is, is someone going to work for a while to improve the editor to allow new races to be made?

Personally, I know I'm going to give it a shot. I know several coders, and it would be very, very cool to have Jeff release a patch of thier work. Heck, I'll learn some extra coding myself if I can get a shot at THAT :P either way, What's above is my IDEA for A4, not necessarily whats likely to happen.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
A question about Skribbane in General
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #26
Okay. Now to answer the question:

Skribbane is not copied on anything. It is an original drug. As best I can tell, Skribbane is a modified form of Energy Herb, grown to be chewable. You chew it, it stings your mouth, you get enfused with energy and as the game puts it "You feel like rushing out and killing something evil!" use it too much, it stops doing good things for you. you get addicted and the addiction damages you if you dont chew enough skribbane. Skribbane is incredibly powerfull because its % based. Instead of getting a set +100 HP or something over the top, it gives you roughly +25% of your normal full MP/HP back, or something thereabouts. What makes it insane is that this can be added on no matter what. You can have used Divine Restoration, and hence already be over the top for HP, and still chew 10 skribbanes to get an insane HP boost over that. In short....Skribbane is what you use if your rushing through the game, not doing sidequests or levelling up or getting equipment, and yet wish to slay the last boss. Also , it should be noted that you can get 2 pieces of skribbane herb in the first province, and 5 in the Isle of bigail (since thats where its grown....them dirty anama's!) So have fun, chew your heart out (not literally, hopefully) and take that skribbane and LIKE it! - by the way, you also get a "special package of herbs" as a sidequest.....thats skribbane, but you cant use it.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Announcment! get your Player Character concept made! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #9
I absolutely agree that there should be a female Nephil. I flipped through the character portraits when I decided to remake Rosalia to a Nephil, only to discover that there were none. It isn't that it's so imperitive so much as that it's needed for completeness :P If this turns into a which idea gets the most support thing, thats what I support. But if its random character portraits, I'd personally like to see my own character made, of course :P a human in a black long coat (Almost like a trench coat, more medieval) with matching hat (I'll find a photo of one of the hats....give me time) holding a blade at his side. I know of a few pictures, I just need to grab screenshots of them. One picture is in an old SNES game called X-Caliber, I'm hunting for the particular screenshot I need :P but it shows the blade and position well, and I'll get pics of the coat and hat soon enough if needed.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Were the Vhanitia things in Avernum 1? in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #22
Alrighty. To answer your question, in one post, here goes: There is a cave. The cave has a plaque saying "We the revered race of the Vahnatai, leave this land to (our others or something, cant remember) for now, and come to reclaim it (insert threat against those who defile the caves here, cant remember exact wording) there is a corpse on the ground of a "thin alien creature the likes of which you have never seen" holding an alien blade. If you go into the cave you will encounter quite a few odd things. The undead in the crypt are Vahnavoi's, roleplay-wise, but as far as thier graphics/names/fighting abilities, they're just normal undead. Explore the crypt (it's hard to get into, you need to find the key to it on another dead Vahnatai elsewhere in Avernum). Also, you can find a dead Vahnatai in the Aranea caverns near Fort Draco and the Friendly Spiders. And you can find a dead Vahnatai in the Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Spider lair, as well, near all the dead "bad humans", through some web. There also one other dead Vahnatai with a mind crystal somewhere else, can't remember which dungeon. But, in essence, no. The Vahnatai had not begun to wake from thier long, dark slumber by the time the events in A1 took place. It is rumored that the only reason they woke up for A2 was because the Great Adventurer's from A1 woke them. But hey......who knows? :P Also, there are no Waveblades or Razordisks in A1. Theres just the Alien Blade, which is a two-handed waveblade thats got +20 poison damage, a sick weapon overall. I doubt Jeff truly intended to introduce waveblades/razordisks all that much in E2 when he made E1, which I'll assume to be pretty much the same :P Either way, the Waveblade is one of the great artifacts of the Avernum series, alone with Smite(Giantslayer), Ghoulbane, Demonslayer, Thralni's Orb (Orb of Thralni), the Onyx Scepter, and the Jade Halberd. Not listing the Legendary Artificats in A3 yet because they've only got 1 game to thier name (unless they're in BoA) :P
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #4
Gah! Sorry about the double-post. By the way, if the editor cant do those things now, is there any chance it will be updated to do it later?....or any chance that, if I find a way to improve the editor so that it can, I can submit it to be released as a patch? and finally.....can I make new races in the editor?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Getting BoA soon, need some explanation FIRST! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #4
Gah! Sorry about the double-post. By the way, if the editor cant do those things now, is there any chance it will be updated to do it later?....or any chance that, if I find a way to improve the editor so that it can, I can submit it to be released as a patch? and finally.....can I make new races in the editor?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00

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