The Lonely Celt

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AuthorTopic: The Lonely Celt
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #25
You can buy a spidersilk cloak in the Faerie Bazaar.

If you can't get capture mind before Annwn, in the Halls of the Dead's secret prisons, there is a lost soul that teaches it.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #26
I think the main difference between our games is that I bought a lot of intelligence fairly early, instead of combat skills, faery lore and whatnot (I was really hurting for spellpoints), which also gave me high rune reading (I finished with 14int, including bonuses from items).

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

New Mac BoE
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #27
Khoth, how would you summarize that worked for you? Did you essentially make a glass cannon?

So, I'm just starting Aethdoc now. I've been getting a crummy 40 or 50 points out of 200 for finishing quests like Goagh-Nar and the Faerie Bazaar Master's three quests, which I was able to tell him I'd finished one after another without having to budge an inch in front of him. I forgot for a while to tell him about the Vale of the Sould. I'm at Level 26 now. I had to leave a lot of loot behind at Goagh-Nar, but I got all the really tasty trinkets.

EDIT: I meant to mention that those Fomorian Crushers are brutal on a singleton. They take many attacks to go down, and they deal a lot of damage in the meantime. Good time for Call Hunt and Coils of the Serepent. Oh, and it's the first time I ever used Simulacrum. I copied a Crusher to deal with other Fomorians and Crushers. Quite effective, I must say.

I tend to get bored on these later giant dungeon crawls. I like the earlier ones.

-S-

[ Friday, June 01, 2007 06:23: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #28
That's not really a "glass cannon." The vast majority of your protection comes from armor and not skills anyway. So it's really just a "cannon" as opposed to a "cannon with a stick."

From my (admittedly meager) testing, a single point of Intelligence adds THREE LEVELS to the power of each spell. That makes a big difference.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #29
So... Ideally, ignore other stats and crank int. This solves the rune reading issue, increases spell stats, increases offensive power, provides more spell points which in turn means more offense and staying power,

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #30
I did pretty much try to make sure most things didn't get close to me, and I was never able to really fight much in melee. By the end of the game, my melee attack did a bit less damage than bolt of fire, so sometimes I'd whack something a couple of times with the Icy Longsword (my favourite weapon when a Roman too, incidentally), as it saved on SP and I could often get two attacks in even when not hasted.

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

New Mac BoE
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #31
quote:
Originally written by Yama:

From my (admittedly meager) testing, a single point of Intelligence adds THREE LEVELS to the power of each spell. That makes a big difference.
Are you sure about this? My first game as Roman druids had high intelligence and I didn't find that it increased the spells that much.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #32
No, I'm not. As I said, the testing was meager, though it was consistent. I basically tested the duration of War Blessing (which had no variation) before and after raising Intelligence, Druidism, and War Circle different amounts.

It's possible, for example, that duration is not affected the same way as damage is. But it makes sense, given that Strength has twice the effect on melee damage that melee skills do. That was pretty clear from testing.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #33
My game broke coming back from Annwn. My Celt's been kickin' butt for quite a while now and waltzed through Annwn, though I haven't had her face Reptrakos yet, only because I forgot about it. I had to leave tons of stuff behind in Annwn, even though I only went in with two things. I exited through the Nethergate, faced the Roman party of five camping there, killed them, and went to the hut east of the fort to sell my loot.

I came back to the Nethergate to pick up some more stuff dropped there, and found the same Roman party of five there all over for me to kill again. And again...and again, as many times as I want to leave and return. And I get a crown every time too.

When I returned to Nethergate fort, Cartumnus wouldn't let me finish the quest. He acts like I haven't even been to Annwn yet. This does not break if you don't return to the Nethergate after leaving it. I'm surprised no one else had this happen yet.

-S-

[ Sunday, June 03, 2007 00:56: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #34
I saw the party of Romans again, but I quit the game for other reasons with a corrupt file. I think you have to get the quest removed first before going back to pick up all that loot. Usually at this point you don't have much that you want to spend money on.

Edit - Did you step all the way into the hut to trigger the message? If you did, then send the saved game to Jeff so he can fix the logic branch.

[ Sunday, June 03, 2007 04:46: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6489
Profile Homepage #35
You should be able to tell Cartumnus about the crown if you use the editor to set flag (7,3,250)

[ Sunday, June 03, 2007 04:53: Message edited by: Tyranicus ]

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"You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus
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Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #36
The End of The Lonely Celt

It wasn't sellable loot I had to go back to the Nether Gate for, it was my own stash of gear I had placed there, ready to tackle the Spire next. I simply went back to the save before fighting the Romans and didn't recreate the bug. I have finished this game. The Lonely Celt became very powerful once she got Heartshock, Soul Lance, and Clouds of Night.

Reptrakos was a breeze, though I waited very late in the game to take him on. I simply sent out some Wind Warriors, used a Heroes of Old potion, and whacked the big lizard with my sword. He died pretty quickly, and easily. Raven went similarly, right before the Spire, though I just used Charm and summons to dispatch him. I didn't bother fighting in the Faerie Bazaar or Hollow Hills. I could have gotten one more level out of the deal, but there was little reason to bother.

Annwn was very easy. I used a lot of Clouds of Night, as the following pictures will testify, to very gratifying effect. I had around 50 Energy Elixirs by Annwn/Spire. I used around 12-16 of them in the Spire (it took four to refill my essence), just a very few in Annwn. There is little need for wands, scrolls, or any other potions besides a couple Invulnerability/Heros of Old. I barely touched those as it was. I think I used about 3-4 total between the two of those, one against Vibinius at the end so I could hang out till his own Invulnerability Elixir wore off.

IMAGE(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/synergy67/CloudsofNight.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/synergy67/CloudsofNight2.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/synergy67/CloudsofNight3.jpg)

My Celt's end stats are below. I bought all useful skills just by the end of the game, mostly because I had to leave so much loot behind in some places as a singleton. I bought up all the Melee, Slings, Defense, Hardiness I could finish off in the Hollow Hills for ungodly sums of cash. There is such a ridiculous amount of powerful, pricey, magical loot to be had in Annwn. This game is rather swimming in magical loot later on. And all the cool weapons are spears and battle axes.

IMAGE(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/synergy67/endstats.jpg)

I ditched the Blessed Chainmail late in the game and went for the +3 Intelligence with the Archdruid robe and +2 with the Intelligence Bracelet. I put on the Runed Helm instead of the Helm of Speed (for more magical boost), and Cordelia's Locket (for battle stat boost) for Reptrakos, Raven, and the Spire. Being more magically and battly powerful was much more useful than the extra protection from the chainmail. Nothing hardly ever got a hit on me anymore anyway. I used the +10% chance to save your life shield at the end. Clouds of Night is insanely lethal in this build. I noticed I had somehow accumulated 2 encumbrance, which is why I thought about using the robe in the first. It was great, as it turned out.

The Crone outside the Spire was pitifully easy after all the stories I've heard about her. This was my first Celt game to be completely finished, actually, ever. I did a ton of testing for the Romans, and slowed down for the Celts. I'm still finding bugs, heh.

If I were to play a Celt singleton again, I'd forego Herbcraft entirely and sell nearly all wands and potions except for Energy ones and Heroic/Invulnerability. Early on I used some Strength and Haste potions, but they soon stop being useful. I'd use Random's idea to maximize Beast Circle development. I don't know how to get the negative reward on top of the positive reward. I'm not sure it's possible. After getting the good reward, walking into the bad reward area no longer even triggered a dialog of any kind, like it was deactivated entirely.

There was one door in the Spire I couldn't unlock, despite having all keys I know of.

Lydia's final gear (she looks curiously masculine here, no?)

IMAGE(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/synergy67/endgear.jpg)

This game was on Normal difficulty. I think Torment would have been a lot more bother early on, but still would have been quite successful overall. I used the sword a lot, which is one reason I had so much energy to spare by endgame. I tend to play too conservatively with my resources in all SW games, saving up for a rainy day that never comes.

This was a satisfying game that felt like The Insidious Infiltrator Part 2 by the end. If I can stomach more of this game, I'll be trying the Roman tank singleton, like everyone else. :D

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #37
Congratulations on finishing.

I think you underestimate Torment; N:R has difficulty stepped up in general from previous games. The problem in this case is that everything has so much extra HP. Even Clouds of Night won't kill things in one hit, but you WILL sometimes die in one hit, so you will have to rely heavily on summons and charms in addition to direct damage. A Celt has more flexibility than a Roman, but summons and charms on top of magic are expensive, and the game will become a nightmare of SP management.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #38
Congratulations.

The biggest problem isn't spell energy managent in torment as is avoiding damage since the fights take longer. Charms and summons take the pressure off your singleton so you can concentrate on offensive spells. Having enough dexterity to go first really helps in some battles so you aren't swarmed before you get to react outdoors.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #39
I think a Celt singleton on Torment will be a nasty challenge for someone now that I see how ramped up Torment is. Two goblins can easily kill my Roman singleton on Torment if I'm not careful. I think that's because I focused too much on Roman Training and not enough on Strength at the start. <reload>

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #40
Torment REQUIRES survival tactics. You can't play like in Geneforge or Avernum 4 and just ramp your magic or power up hugely and kill things before they kill you. You NEED some way of staying alive. For Romans that means armor and healing, for Celts it means summons.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #41
Synergy as a Roman, for the first few levels you need to back up so only one goblin or wolf is in sight and use missle weapons to lure it out from the group. Although if you watch carefully you will see goblins trying to go around and hit you from behind.

For Roman singletons without druidism, it's a real grind to keep from being swarmed and knowing when to retreat to keep from using all your money on healing potions. I tried it and gave up when I finished the Abandoned Mines, when you get outdoors there isn't enough room to use that tactic.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #42
Hey Random, how many Beast or Craft Circle can you have and still be able to buy one level of each at Hagfen?

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #43
I wil take this opportunity of a botched edit to mention that I'm looking at doing a Celt singleton on Torment now.

-S-

[ Monday, June 04, 2007 18:27: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #44
Um, zero. It works the same way as all trainers. If they train to 1 you can only buy it from zero.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #45
I was afraid of that. It's really annoying even having that Hagfen option as a singleton, just for one level.

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #46
Hagfen is really for the Romans or if you want to upgrade a Celtic fighter to have some druidism, even though it's cheaper in skill points.

Druidism is cheaper from east of the Faerie Bazaar by a few hundred coins so watch it. I didn't and over paid.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #47
Trainers have annoyed me -- a LOT -- since G2. I have taken to playing spidweb games with one of the following cheats, because my compulsive min-maxing makes the games suck if I can waste so much time thinking about trainers:

1) If I use sp on a stat early on that I could later train, when I reach the trainer, give myself credit for it and go shopping with the editor

2) Infinite gold, this solves the trainer problem by allowing me to use them as soon as available and also means I don't have to spend forever picking up and selling @#$%@# trinkets... I tend to use this one with singletons, who are unlikely to have anything they can't afford by game's end anyway but have no room to carry stuff.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #48
These make sense. I was about to try to edit myself four players worth of Barter, except it is a special untrainable skill, so it can't be edited without a hack. I think the infinite gold tactic makes sense. Otherwise it's just purist nitpickery which makes your game five times longer and at least as many times more irritating as a singleton. I'm inclined to use the train option you just mentioned too. Games are meant to be fun, not micromanagement torture.

I made an argument some time back that the real rewards in SW games should be looted money you can buy stuff with, and some special gear you can pick up and use, but not sell for money. Carry/Sell is tedious, boring work that is about as useful as having the player have to eat, sleep, get dressed, or go to the bathroom for realism. Realistically, a player couldn't carry remotely enough to make this tactic how you'd get your funding anyway.

Trainers really should be more designed to work to further where you are at when you encounter them, or to give special new skills like in the earlier Avernums. I'm going to do the Celt singleton with some leeway in this regard, or I'll never stick it out.

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00

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