Vlish under-rated

AuthorTopic: Vlish under-rated
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It is mid year holidays up here, so I've been running a Lifecrafter who focuses primarily on disposable creations and supporting magic (Blessing and Healing).

The experience so far has really left me questioning the mantra that the Vlish is a 'shadow of its former self'.

They may not be the underpriced monsters they were in GF3, but they are still by far the best tier 2 creation, and are superior to the glaahk and battle alpha in tier 3.

The vanilla vlish has more health than a roamer, is a reliable hitter, and has some sort of intrinsic ability to dodge. Most vanilla enemies prior to Gamma camp seem to only have a 50% chance of hitting. Reduce this to 25% if cursed.

Vlish also have decent physical, acid, poison and magic resist.

I've been meddling with the Charged Vlish, with positive results. Although far more costly, it is highly effective against powerful enemies. Despite being the same level, and having the same stats, as the vanilla vlish, the Charged Vlish deals approximately 1/3 greater damage with vlish bolts and tentacle. It also has a +40% chance to hit when compared with its little vlish brother.

Slow pretty much cripples any deadly high level opponents. I managed to take down the Old Golem in the Sandros mines with just 2 charged vlish and a vanilla vlish.

Added to which, the Charged Vlishy has cold immunity. I've found this to be quite useful in several situations. The Parasitic Shade was a breeze as its frozen touch left my Charged Vlish unscathed, while my other Vlish were wailing about it. The Forgotten One fell prey to two charged Vlish enchanted with Spine Shield.

It will be interesting to see how well my Vlish will hold up in Burwood.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
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It's mostly that the older game vlish was far superior to the current vanilla vlish. The older ones had a stun ability that would keep most opponents from attacking. Charged ones die off too quickly because they are unstable, but have the slowing effect from the older games,

Still if it works for you than keep going.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Apprentice
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vannila sorrry im retarded but can i ask vinnla? :D
Posts: 27 | Registered: Thursday, March 29 2007 07:00
Law Bringer
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Vanilla as in plain basic version as opposed to the level 3 version which for vlish is charged.

Although there was a time as I posted that maybe flavoring vlish would make it delicious.
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Mmm, hot fudge sundae vlish.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
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Random:
quote:

It's mostly that the older game vlish was far superior to the current vanilla vlish.

I'm not arguing that the old game vlish was 'superior', but the GF4 vanilla vlish is still pretty good. It beats the other tier 2 creations hands down.

quote:

The older ones had a stun ability that would keep most opponents from attacking.

From memory, they slowed and stunned.

quote:

Charged ones die off too quickly because they are unstable, but have the slowing effect from the older games,

I cast Regenerate on my charged vlishies. Given that I'm playing a 'deadweight' (not really) Shaper, I have quite a significant amount in healing craft. The free spellcraft throughout the game is also helping my regenerate spell last for reasonable lengths of time.

[ Monday, July 02, 2007 17:43: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ]

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
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Originally by Waylander:

quote:
It beats the other tier 2 creations hands down.
That's not too hard to do, though, given that battle creations are generally weaker than magic and fire creations and that (in Dikiyoba's opinion) the roamer is the weakest fire creation available.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
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Dikiyobi:
quote:

That's not too hard to do, though, given that battle creations are generally weaker than magic and fire creations and that (in Dikiyoba's opinion) the roamer is the weakest fire creation available

So? Power is relative. The fact that the Vlish is the best 2nd tier creation speaks strongly in its favour.

I'm Lvl24 at the moment, and have sunk 10 points into magic shaping. Three vlish with one charged easily cleaned up Mysithius in Thorton. It was laughable... Myssy had a 20% chance to hit (uncursed), and only done approximately 20-30 damage on a connect.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
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Originally by Waylander:

quote:
So? Power is relative. The fact that the Vlish is the best 2nd tier creation speaks strongly in its favour.
I've just found vlish to be good because the other creations in its tier are weak, not because vlish are powerful. But then, I haven't played with vlish much (and never with charged vlish), and I've never been able to stomp Mystithus or the Parasitic Shade, so specialization probably makes a big difference.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
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Being better than others is not the same thing as being good. Vlish are good, but in G4, they are no longer spectacular and amazing. They are probably the best option through chapter 2 IFF you are running disposable creations. If you build your creation levels, a vlish might be useful but cryoa will be better and artila nearly as good but cheaper.

As for this 'mysterious intrinsic dodging' I've heard that before and I don't buy it. I've never seen any evidence of such a thing. Give me the results of a test where the exact same enemy entity uses the same attack against a vlish of level X with dexterity Y and against some other creation with identical dexterity and level. If those are different, I'll listen.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
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Slar:
quote:

Being better than others is not the same thing as being good.

I disagree. 'Goodness' is often relative. Whether a creation is good is determined by how it compares with enemy creations, and whether there is anything more efficient in the PC's arsenal.

quote:

Vlish are good, but in G4, they are no longer spectacular and amazing.

I agree that they aren't 'spectacular and amazing', but they solid creations. You get your essences worth. A high starting level, a good chance to hit, a strong melee, fair HP, the curse effects (perhaps the second most useful ancillary in the game) and a wealth of resistances.

quote:

They are probably the best option through chapter 2 IFF you are running disposable creations. If you build your creation levels, a vlish might be useful but cryoa will be better and artila nearly as good but cheaper.

I'd disagree with you on that one. Added to which, creations take a bite from your EXP. Why sacrifice the EXP, when you can produce higher tier creations of similar essence cost that can perform just as well?

quote:

As for this 'mysterious intrinsic dodging' I've heard that before and I don't buy it.

I ran a quick trial, and apparently Vlish have the same chance to dodge as other creations when their DEX is equal. So I've come to the conclusion that as newly created Vlish have a higher starting level than cryoa/roamer/clawbug, they have higher DEX, and hence a higher chance to dodge. *slaps forehead*

That would probably explain why several people reported that Vlishies seemingly intrinsic ability to dodge.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
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Originally by Waylander:

quote:
Added to which, creations take a bite from your EXP. Why sacrifice the EXP, when you can produce higher tier creations of similar essence cost that can perform just as well?
Disposable creations will eat up some of your experience as well. Besides, creations don't take up too much experience. Synergy's Valeta made it to level 46 by playing solo most the game. My last shock trooper run with between 3-7 creations for most the game managed to get to level 43. Three levels doesn't make that much of a difference, even on torment.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
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Dikiyobi,

I usually absorb my creations before receiving any quest EXP points. Although a fair proportion of the EXP does come from combat, which is gobbled up by my creations.

For me, retaining my creations never seems to be feasible. For example, let's say I purchase two points in fyora, and create a shiny new cryoa. I retain that creation, and allow it to level up.

Along the way, I'm going to discover a create fyora canister. I'm also inevitably going to sink some points into fire shaping. If not, I'm going to get equipment that will boost my fire shaping anyway.

By the time I've levelled up my cryoa, I can usually create a shiny new cryoa that is exactly the same level, or higher! Or they will be overshadowed by a creation from a higher tier.

So what exactly was the point of spending my hard earned EXP on a redundant creation? Those XP points are better off in my pocket, than in the pocket of an absorbed creation.

Sure, you could keep an artila around for the entire game. But it's hardly worth the EXP or hassle, IMHO.

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
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I've always had the same experience, but then other people speak of getting cryoas that perform comparably to drayks by the endgame. And even in the endgame, a drayk is not a bad thing, especially if it costs no more than cryoa. Somehow for me everything either dies or goes obsolete, until I reach the upper tiers. Though my lifecrafter had no troubles finishing with 4th tier creations only, so I'm not sure the fifth tier is really needed.

So I dunno. It may be that there is some sort of a shoulder on the curve, somewhere in the midgame, and if you can keep lower tier things alive through that point, then it starts to pay off. I've never really figured this out, though.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
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quote:
Originally written by Suspicious Vlish:

By the time I've levelled up my cryoa, I can usually create a shiny new cryoa that is exactly the same level, or higher! Or they will be overshadowed by a creation from a higher tier.
This simply is not the case. Although creations do not level up at the overly advantageous rate they did in G3, there are very few levels of Create X skill available -- particularly for a second-level creation like a cryoa, where you already need three to make it -- and equipment that boosts shaping skill is rare. And if you're going to keep your creations around you need to spend skill points on shaping skill BEFORE making them, obviously.

What constitutes the 'shoulder on the curve' for me, anyway, is mental resistance. All the fourth and fifth tier creations have it and the others don't, and it becomes very annoying not to have it later in the game. The problem is that drayks remain the best value for your essence, except for that one flaw.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
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Electric Sheep One
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Hmm. Perhaps I should admit that my only significant experience with creations in G4 was from a single game as a loyalist lifecrafter, in which I switched from six seasoned vlish to a single wingbolt as soon as I hit Camp Gamma, and then gradually added two rotghroths and a kyshakk. So although I didn't keep a cryoa alive from zone 3, or anything, I did keep a single creation for the last 60% of the game. That worked quite well — rather too well, in fact, on Normal difficulty.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00