Having a good time, but one annoyance.

AuthorTopic: Having a good time, but one annoyance.
Apprentice
Member # 8530
Profile #0
Hi,

Been playing this game for a while now, and ended up buying it. I played the Exiles many years ago and thoroughly enjoyed them, thus never bought the Avernum games.

I wanted to see where the story went though, so I tried this game, and have been having a blast...its certainly different to the Exiles, better in some ways, and worse in others, but there is one thing that has been annoying me constantly: When one of my characters goes 'unconscious' (They cannot die? :D Is this for younger players? anyway) they then need to be carted back to a town gate to be revived.

Why? It is the only thing that has so far dampened my gaming experience. Having to slog all the way back to town is rather silly for an unconscious character don't you think? Why can't I just take a rest and heal them back up again? If they died I could understand having to travel somewhere to attempt a revival...but unconscious?

Anyway, the rest of the game is shaping up nicely. Though it would have been much better without this slightly annoying mechanic. Keep up the (mostly) good work. ;)
Posts: 20 | Registered: Wednesday, April 18 2007 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #1
quote:
Originally written by Ladonna:

When one of my characters goes 'unconscious' (They cannot die? :D Is this for younger players? anyway) they then need to be carted back to a town gate to be revived.
It's not for younger players. Rather, it's because Jeff thought that having to raise dead members was annoying. That said, the unconscious characters aren't an improvement.

But you can also bring your entire party back to life with the Raise Dead priest spell.

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Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7032
Profile #2
There is a (late game) spell that can revive them in the field.

I believe that the idea was just to auto-rive dead characters when entering town. Just as they would auto-rest!
In order to explain away why a dead character would be auto-rived upon entering even a pit-hole like Grimstone, Jeff just said that the characters became "unconscious." That way, the "resting" could explain why they returned.

I don't think Jeff is seriously impressed by some mad parental group wanting to remove death from the game. Otherwise demon summoning and necromancy would have to go too. Not even mentioning the deaths of your enemies, and the concept of taking items that are clearly marked "not yours."

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Power to (the) Mas(ses)
Posts: 102 | Registered: Friday, April 14 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 8530
Profile #3
quote:
But you can also bring your entire party back to life with the Raise Dead priest spell.

Yes, thats correct, but its a reward for working hard on your priest spells, and certainly didn't pop up for a long time. Before that, losing a character was a major issue.

quote:
There is a (late game) spell that can revive them in the field.

Thats a relief ;) This will make my journey much easier on the mind. Thank you.

quote:
I don't think Jeff is seriously impressed by some mad parental group wanting to remove death from the game. Otherwise demon summoning and necromancy would have to go too. Not even mentioning the deaths of your enemies, and the concept of taking items that are clearly marked "not yours."
No, no, this was meant as a joke on my part :D Or perhaps a sly little ribbing about the 'new' RPG audience of today's 'RPG' mainstream games and their 'never die' mechanics. Knights of the old republic, NWN2, etc. Just me being an idiot, nevermind.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Wednesday, April 18 2007 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
quote:
Originally written by SevenMass:

I don't think Jeff is seriously impressed by some mad parental group wanting to remove death from the game. Otherwise demon summoning and necromancy would have to go too. Not even mentioning the deaths of your enemies, and the concept of taking items that are clearly marked "not yours."
Jeff has said, however, that this is more or less the reason that PCs can no longer summon demons, as they could in Exile.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Board Administrator
Member # 1
Profile Homepage #5
I feel there has to be some sort of death penalty. Otherwise, there is no risk. Having to return dead people to the city gates is, I admit, an annoyance, but I can't think of a better solution at this point. And it is far better than the previous system where dead characters were a serious pain in the butt.

"Jeff has said, however, that this is more or less the reason that PCs can no longer summon demons, as they could in Exile."

Part of it is not wanting to borrow trouble. But I could easily slip demon summoning into a late game spell without advertising it. But I won't, because of the other reason demon summoning is out. Demons are too powerful. As they currently stand (or as I try to make them be), being able to summon demons would be unbalancing.

One of my current rules, btw, is that I do not let players summon anything that summons.

- Jeff Vogel

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spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com
Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:

One of my current rules, btw, is that I do not let players summon anything that summons.
Yeah... this is why vampires in BoA are so overpowered.

Vampire casts Arcane Summon. Vampire is summoned. Vampire is summoned. Vampire is summoned. Vampire casts Arcane Summon...

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #7
At least with "unconcious" you don't have to pick up all the character's equipment and loot to haul back separately. The down side is that you can't access that one item that only he or she was carrying.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8530
Profile #8
quote:
At least with "unconcious" you don't have to pick up all the character's equipment and loot to haul back separately. The down side is that you can't access that one item that only he or she was carrying.
I agree with both your points, but I cannot remember my characters dropping everything when they died in Exile. I might be wrong, it was MANY years ago :D

quote:
I feel there has to be some sort of death penalty. Otherwise, there is no risk. Having to return dead people to the city gates is, I admit, an annoyance, but I can't think of a better solution at this point. And it is far better than the previous system where dead characters were a serious pain in the butt.

It seems to be a dilemma for many devs this issue. I would say that you are on the right track, though have gone half way. Unconcious, imho, should be one 'state' that can lapse into further states until finally death awaits, unless the appropriate healing skill is used to stabalise a character. If you have played Wasteland before, you will get what I am saying. Its also an elegant way of increasing the importance and scope of a healing skill.

Death should be hard to rectify. And extremely costly too if using the above method. But its just a suggestion.

quote:
One of my current rules, btw, is that I do not let players summon anything that summons.

This would have helped me greatly during Exile Crystal souls ;) . Agreed.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Wednesday, April 18 2007 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7557
Profile #9
I prefered the Neverwinter Nights method.

You died and you got revived with a major penelty to XP and Gold and in some areas you couldn't be revived.

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Posts: 942 | Registered: Sunday, October 8 2006 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #10
That would be a pretty huge penalty in Avernum, though, given that your opportunities to earn XP are strictly finite.

I'm a big fan of the way Arcana (an obscure, poorly-translated SNES RPG) handles it. If anyone dies, game over.

I suppose it doesn't make a difference since most players will just reload whenever anyone dies, regardless of the game's consequences.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7032
Profile #11
Hardcore mode in Diablo2 anyone?

Especially if you play it on the closed realms on battle.net! Perma-death and no way to re-load or insert a back-up save!

I only play HC mode in D2.
That said, Staying alive in D2 isn't all that difficult. Most deaths are due to internet LAG.

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Posts: 102 | Registered: Friday, April 14 2006 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
Profile Homepage #12
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:

One of my current rules, btw, is that I do not let players summon anything that summons.
Yeah... this is why vampires in BoA are so overpowered.

Vampire casts Arcane Summon. Vampire is summoned. Vampire is summoned. Vampire is summoned. Vampire casts Arcane Summon...

That was the best part of high-level BoA, though. Especially when you're the one doing the summoning. :D

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Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #13
Insert Alorael's mandatory Angband reference here.

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #14
I back up my saves in Angband. Yes, it makes victory a little less sweet, but those drolems definitely cheat.

—Alorael, who considers backing up his saves a compromise between the headaches of straight Angband and cheat death mode.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8530
Profile #15
I don't mind optional permadeath for those that like it, but I wouldn't buy a game that only had this feature.

Not enough time on my hands for gaming as it is, without playing through the same parts of a game again.

Roguelikes tend to help by being random each time, but I leave those to roguelikes.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Wednesday, April 18 2007 07:00