opinions on Avernum IV

AuthorTopic: opinions on Avernum IV
Warrior
Member # 4084
Profile #0
This is important to me, I'm done with the demo and I'm at the point where I'm thinking whether I should buy the game or not.

I already own the other Avernum games and I was reading some posts and I'm seeing many criticisms about Avernum IV compared to the previous ones.

I'd like some opinions on the good points about Avernum IV compared to the other Avernums. Any feedback on why this would be a good buy?

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"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" -G.M.
Posts: 52 | Registered: Wednesday, March 10 2004 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
We've had a lot of "reactions" threads, starting with mine, shortly after the Mac version came out. More recently there was this one, shortly after the Windows version came out.

There are the occasional complaint threads, which may or may not tell you anything, as well as a few vaguely insightful comparison threads.

But then, who knows, we might have new discussion here, so we can leave this thread open. Those are just for reference, if you want to know what's been said before.

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #2
I think it depends on whether you like Geneforge or not. If you prefer Geneforge to Avernum or find them equally enjoyable, then get A4. If you preferred Avernums 1-3 to Geneforge then I think A4 is going to be a bit disappointing, however YMMV.

The threads Kel referenced have already covered the ground of what's wrong with A4 fairly well - concentrating on the technical engine matters (and the egregious plot). Actually for me I find the engine is liveable-with and as for the plot, it never stopped me enjoying A3 so it won't stop me enjoying A4 either.

No, my top gripe with A4 is that it throws away too many in-game features of the world of Avernum and imports too many from Geneforge. No more traveling by water, no more secret tunnels. Instead instant travel and shopkeepers who only stock 1-2 of each item. Also the monsters - I don't want to see submission turrets, crawlers, artilas, pylons, spraying shrubs or spawners in my Avernum games. They belong in Geneforge, which up until now has been a separate world. The spawner in particular was a real slap in the face - and in fact the toughened-up "chitrachs" were suspiciously like clawbugs with a facelift.

Edit: Adding to list of things imported from GF.

[ Sunday, April 02, 2006 04:28: Message edited by: Micawber ]

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"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #3
Sadly I found myself actually enjoying the game play in A4, but not caring for the plot at all. It may be interesting to some to discover the villain, but I just didn't care. There was no sense of suspense, no sense that actions I took were changing events, and certainly no emotion for successfully completing a quest.

But the combat was real fun, and you can tweak the scripts to make the game a little bit different. Wheeeeeeeee.

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WWtNSD?
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4084
Profile #4
Thanks you guys, I read those threads and it actually did help.

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"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" -G.M.
Posts: 52 | Registered: Wednesday, March 10 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #5
The plot was the weakest point. The main villlian wasn't that good and the second one wasn't used that well. Maybe the Darkside Loyalist plot will come back in a better form someday.

The "new" monsters from Geneforge were used because they were available to insert quickly into the game. Someday the graphics will ready to bring back all the great monsters of the old Avernum games.

The combat engine is better so there is no longer the delay command. We finally have the true area effect spells from the Exile games, but I would have like a targeted multiple target spell like the Exile Flame Arrows. Also now that you could use spells to hit invisible creatures there are no black shades and guardians. It's not like Jeff needed a graphic for those monsters.

The game is still fun with limitations. Money is tight, you can only get 2 levels of training, items are not available in quantity, etc. but you can work around them.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

The "new" monsters from Geneforge were used because they were available to insert quickly into the game. Someday the graphics will ready to bring back all the great monsters of the old Avernum games.
No it wasn't about graphics it was about combat strategy. Jeff wanted to write a GF-style game in the Avernum world. But it results in a world that's unrecognisable - impossible to believe that A4 takes place in the same world as A1-3.

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"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #7
It does not fit in the original Avernum world because of the drastic change in the type and use of monsters. The previous Avernum games involved several outdoor sections and a few dungeons for every major monster group that infested a region; for instance, the Sliths had the entire area west of Fort Avernum. Avernum 3 took this concept to the extreme with literal monster plagues, but Avernum 4 has tons of small infestations that seem almost random in their placement. I was surprised to find various "worm" type monsters instead of the usual Avernum critters.

Also, some monsters like demons which were commonplace in previous Avernum games have become rare. In short, there were more monsters to fight in the previous Avernums because of wanderinng outdoor encounters etc., and I think this changes the feel very much.

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Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 549
Profile #8
Monsters are much more powerful relative to PC's in this Avernum game. A lot of monsters from previous games are missing but each monster has many different subtypes like in Geneforge and Diablo.
Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 6983
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

The "new" monsters from Geneforge were used because they were available to insert quickly into the game. Someday the graphics will ready to bring back all the great monsters of the old Avernum games.
No it wasn't about graphics it was about combat strategy. Jeff wanted to write a GF-style game in the Avernum world. But it results in a world that's unrecognisable - impossible to believe that A4 takes place in the same world as A1-3.

He is right in a way though, in that the creatures from Avernum we all fell in love with are, in a sense, graphicly outdated. Jeff buys his sprites, I believe, so recycling the Gene monsters is in some ways a good idea. To get those old sprites updated would mean buying new ones :P

Not that I like seeing Gene monsters in Avernum! I don't want an Avernum/Geneforge hybrid. To me they were completely seperate, and I liked it that way. It feels kind of cheesy to walk around a dark curner of a cave and run into a pylon I've killed a million times in a completely different world. I feel the same about having all the guards use the same sprites as the Gene Guardians.

As a side note- Anyone feel like Avernum is becoming streamlined and simplified?
Posts: 11 | Registered: Sunday, April 2 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 125
Profile #10
Jeff has said that that was one thing he tried to do in A4:
quote:
From the manual:
I have ruthlessly pared away all of the stuff that caused
busywork and confusion without adding fun.

This has been a highly disputed decision, and many people feel that some of the eliminated stuff was in fact fun. It does seem weird that I can train while in the middle of a hostile dungeon, for example.

Also, given the graphical upgrades such as animation, new sprites needed to be made; however, it would be possible to use the old ones with the new engine. In fact, that would be fairly easy to do, as long as you don't care about animation. Apparently, Jeff likes the new style graphics and animation better, or at least think that they will sell better. Although he may care about his game worlds and tradition, fundamentally he's trying to feed his family, and that's how things are going to work.

I suppose I could start working on some interesting monsters from the past, if I have some free time. Any suggestions?

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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Posts: 256 | Registered: Monday, October 8 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #11
quote:
From the manual:
I have ruthlessly pared away all of the stuff that caused
busywork and confusion without adding fun.

So why did he add tedious creatures like pylons, turrets and shrubs? They're really repetitive, if fighting turrets isn't busywork I don't know what is. :(

For me there is no obvious creature missing from Avernum 4 - we have all the traditional sliths, nephils, spiders, bandits, ogres, goblins, undead, cave giants, drakes, golems, vahnatai, etc, etc. Even the chitrachs make a re-appearance, dammit. I just wish he hadn't added the trap-monsters. :mad:

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"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00