I need advice
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 14:35
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I'm thinking about getting into Geneforge, but before I start I need to know one thing. Are there any useless skills I should just avoid all together? Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 15:09
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It really depends on what type of character you are planning to make and which Geneforge you are planning to play (of course G1 is a good place to start). The general consencious is that battle shaping is useless (at least on a higher level of playing) and that if you are playing a character that plans on entering the fray a lot that you should use missle and not melee (though I like to play with melee cuz it presents a challenge). Oh and that don't invest too much in blessing magic, just enough to get the blessing spells you want. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 17:43
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Check out Strategy Central for information about the different classes and playing styles that you don't get in the manual or FAQs. This mainly applies to Geneforge 3, but with some care you can use it in most games. Battle shaping helps in the later part of the game when you can create a thahd shade with very high dexterity. It can sit in front of your party and draw attacks that will miss it. Generally as a shaper fire shaping gives you the earlier creations and magic shaping can give you vlish that can stun opponents. It usually doesn't pay to get skills where you are weakest in learning them because the cost in skill points will hurt your character. You need some mechanics to disarm traps and it helps to unlock doors. Luck will help you get more monster dropped items. Leadership will grant you more conversation options and will allow you to avoid some quests or get items and information that you would otherwise miss. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 17:49
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Useless skills: Dexerity Missile Weapons Battle Shaping Luck (get one point) -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 18:17
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quote:On the other hand, Delicious Vlish swears by Dexterity, Missile Weapons and Luck, and he's one of the best GF strategists around here, so YMMV. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 18:41
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I think that missle weapons are very useful. 100 posts... [ Sunday, August 27, 2006 18:42: Message edited by: Retlaw May ] -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 19:13
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It all depends on the style of play. I'd say Battle Shaping would be the only real one that would be quasi-worthless. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 21:28
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It goes back to which game, character type, and playing style. They all require different skill sets. Battle shaping only works well for meat shields and melee style combat. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Loyal Underling
Member # 13
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written Monday, August 28 2006 03:56
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The skills I actually invest in: Strength Intelligence Melee Quick Action Parry Blessing Magic Mental Magic Mechanics Leadership Healing Craft (a little) Spellcraft (a little) A little bless, haste, essence shield, daze, and go to town hacking away. EDIT: This is not helpful to you in any way because this is for G4 and a class that doesn't exist in the previous games :P And I can't wait to get involved in those big strategy conversations we're bound to have. [ Monday, August 28, 2006 04:13: Message edited by: the Great Potato ] -------------------- [i]Great Potato[/i] "Unless by the force of eloquence they mean the force of truth; for if such is their meaning, I admit that I am eloquent." -- Socrates Posts: 126 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Monday, August 28 2006 16:45
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What I've gathered from a little research is that melee Guardians are apparently the hardest to play on Torment. Parry, which it seems most Guardian players swear by (at least in GF2), isn't available in Geneforge I. All I really want to know is if I should invest points in anatomy (the alternate and offensive choice) and if high ammounts of Dexterity are more helpful than pure offensive strength overall. Oh one more question: Has anyone beaten any of the Geneforges relying only on Battle Shaping and Magic? I'm not talking about using your creations as shields while your main character snipes all the enemies with high powered missiles. I'm talking about Battle creations on the offensive, while your main character buffs them with magic. It seems to me that if you did that, you'd have a lot of room left over for diplomatic skill options. Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, August 28 2006 17:10
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Anatomy greatly increase damage from what I have heard. Dexterity only in GF3 increases missle weapon damage which includes wands, crystals, and batons. Dexterity to prevent damage doesn't work well enough to put that much into it. Slarty tried for a dexterous agent and found that he couldn't increase his dodging ability enough to guarantee success. Edit: It might be possible to use battle shaping if you have mental spells high enough that Daze will stun almost all enemies so your thahds have time to close and attack. After Harmony Island you should have thahd shades that will be better able to avoid being hit. [ Monday, August 28, 2006 18:43: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, August 28 2006 18:33
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Okay, I take it all back. Missile weapons are godly. EDIT: I'm on torment and all I do is sneak up on people and shoot them, and a Daze if I get surrounded. Unstoppable. [ Monday, August 28, 2006 18:34: Message edited by: Drakefyre ] -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 07:39
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The thing you have to remember about the skills is that each one is only good for certain things. That may sound obvious, but that's the thing people seem to not realize. Strength is really only useful if you're using melee attacks, for example. (You need a lot of it to wear enough armor to make a difference, and every character will want more encumbrance at a lot of points in the game.) Similarly, if you aren't using missiles, you can ignore Dexterity completely. There is one big exception, and that is Luck. Luck is one of the most potent and versatile skills. It starts out really cheap, and increasing luck adds to your chance to hit with ANY kind of attack, as well as your chance to dodge any attack. (Buying 3 points of Luck for 4 gives you +6% to hit, compared to 1 point of Strength for 4 giving you +5%. Luck doesn't boost damage, but on higher difficulty you'll want the boost to hit!) It also makes enemies drop more items, which is occasionally useful -- and the cash boost that provides, which can be substantial, is great for missile users. Also, certain skills will get more useful with every point -- Strength and Spellcraft, for example, which boost damage output -- while others have a threshhold of usefulness. Quick Action and Shaping skills become twice as expensive for the same effect once you hit 10, while it's not very helpful to pump Blessing Magic above the minimum for spell requirements. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Loyal Underling
Member # 13
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 08:14
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These are the builds that I've run before and enjoyed: Pure melee Guardian - very fun but gets frustrating towards the end of the game. Luring enemies out one by one is tedious. Battle magic agent - oh the awesome power! Destroy destroy! Daze and melee agent - this is similar to the pure melee guardian but better because Daze lets you survive in group combats. Magic shaping Shaper - status effects are brilliant, and having gazers out there too is unstoppable. Not very fun, though, but definitely powerful. I'd say that this hunter guardian is my new favorite, along with the daze/bless/melee agent. The ability to sneak around and kill things from afar is amazing. I can't believe I never tried this before! -------------------- [i]Great Potato[/i] "Unless by the force of eloquence they mean the force of truth; for if such is their meaning, I admit that I am eloquent." -- Socrates Posts: 126 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 11:13
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I'd like to speak up for battle shaping a little, because of rotghroths, which are lethal. Earlier in the game, plated bugs are also cool (they have 10 APs!). Clearly magic creations are better overall but battle shaping doesn't suck entirely. Fire shaping, now there's a skill I never use (except once for the initial fyora) - and why is it more expensive than the other shaping skills?! -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 12:12
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It's more expensive because of GF1, when it was also massively overpowered. So Jeff toned it down AND raised the skill price, and now I never touch it. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 13:04
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Fire shaping was already more expensive, even in GF1... Is there some subtle pattern in whether you post as Drakefyre or the Great Potato? If so it's too subtle for me :) -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 14:55
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My opinion of the game so far (Geneforge I, Torment Difficulty): Note: Realize that this is just an opinion, you can ignore it completely. I'm sad to say that I've been disappointed so far. The balance of this game seems to be such that the game is either laughably easy or incredibly difficult. At the beginning, my shaper couldn't take a single blow from those Thahd guards in the Ruined School, nor could the Fyroas he created do a damn thing either. Finally, at the brink of quiting the game for good, I found an Artilla canister. Now nothing can even touch me. The two artillas I travel with kill anything before it can even react. To save time and effort, I don't even need bother to put any Intelligence stat points into my creations. Mind you, I only have two Artilla. I could easily have an army of five or six. I suspect that in time my Artilla will become obsolete and I'll have to switch to an even stronger creation. I figure this pattern will continue until the end of the game. The factions haven't shown much promise either. (In Geneforge I, there are only three factions: Takers, Awakened, Obeyers). At the beginning of the game, I decided that my character would keep an open mind and would be more interested in the fact that Serviles were developing into an intelligent society than the fact that this went against Shaper law. When I decided to join the Awakened, I had no idea that they'd send me on horribly immoral missions. I do like how Jeff shows that there is an evil side to even the most noble of causes, but what bothers me is the lack of a choice in the game. You can choose a faction to join, but thats about it. The game lost all of its roleplaying value the second my character was forced to say either: (warning: exaggeration) "Yeah, your faction rules. Screw everything else, where can I sign up." or "Screw you guys, I'm going home." It got worse when I was unable to hold the Awakened responsible for their actions for killing a fellow creation (the Mind), and even worse when I wasn't allowed to join because I couldn't bring myself to destroy the Control Four (which had just been doing its job). I know that the aspect of party loyalty doesn't make much sense to an American like me, but sheesh, does my character get an actual thought in anywhere? I think I'm going to complete the demo before giving up completely. There is still something about this game that I find entertaining, though I dont know what yet. Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 16:09
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quote:It was the same price and overpowered in the beta/unpatched Mac version. I'm the GP at work and Drakey at home. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 17:28
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To Enraged Slith From the FAQ, if your leadership is 12 when you want to join a sect, then you can avoid doing the obnoxious quests. You don't get the experience of doing what you were supposed to do in the quest, but it helps with your moral objections. This is especially helpful when you plan to game the system and join all three sects to get the benefits from each of them. Starting with Awakened, then Taker, and finally Obeyer where you also make sure to get every coin from their merchants too. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7364
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 18:38
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i think you should play a guardian and invest in melee,antomy,and enderence -------------------- You have not seen until you have crossed over to the darkness and power. Posts: 10 | Registered: Tuesday, August 8 2006 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 18:47
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Missile weapons and magic are powerful because you force the monsters to deal with you on your own terms. With melee, in general, you are forced to deal with monsters on their terms, which can be, well, difficult and frusterating at times. Missiles and magic are brutally overpowered in G3. Enough so that even a Shaper with just a mediocre investment in missile skills can seriously burn through anything and everything with out a thought or care. Magic has always been overpowered in the Geneforge world, and Agents reap the rewards. In the right hands, an Agent is unstoppable and deadly. And glad to see others finding out just how much power the hunter guardian has... Wait till you find reapers and start enjoying a little reaper madness. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, August 30 2006 12:01
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Playing as a Shaper always gives you these sharp steps in power, when you acquire a new type of creation. You struggle, then suddenly life is easy when you get Artilas. For a while you enjoy being Death's Deputy, but gradually the enemies catch up, it isn't quite so easy, and eventually you start having Artilas die, or run out of energy before the enemies are all gone. You struggle, then get Vlish, and once again nothing can stop you. And so on. It's similar with the other classes. Searing Orbs and Speed make huge changes for Agents. This is typical for CRPGs, I think. Enjoy the periods of power. They won't last forever. If they do, crank up the difficulty level. 'Torment' difficulty is perfectly beatable, but hardly anyone complains that it's too easy. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Wednesday, August 30 2006 14:36
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What I mean is the battles seem a lot like rock paper scissors. You're either stronger and win, have a ton of pods and win, or are weaker and lose. I haven't seen any real strategy involved in combat yet. It just disappoints me that a game with so many creations couldn't have been more versatile. On an in game note, is there anyway to learn shaping in Geneforge I without using canisters? My Guardian is a strict no-canister man, but needs a few meat shields to cross the mines at the Hill of Jars. Edit: And to distract the horde of Sentinel Plants long enough to let my Guardian kill a few... [ Wednesday, August 30, 2006 14:38: Message edited by: Enraged Slith ] Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Wednesday, August 30 2006 14:39
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Uh, not to be nitpicky or anything, but once you have Vlish, the game is pretty much over. Not only are they a leap in power, they are THE leap in power. Especially so in G3. You can steamroll the game, even Torment, provided that you know what you are doing. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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