3D BOA Editor (Windows)

AuthorTopic: 3D BOA Editor (Windows)
Warrior
Member # 3340
Profile #0
I know I will be yelled at, told that I am *dumb*, but...

Is there anyone working on the Windows port of the 3D BOA Editor?

If so, what is the current status? i.e., are you looking over the source code, checking your tools to compile this monster, anything??

Thanks for reading my dumb rant --- James :cool:

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Sometimes I just don't know anything about everything -- or do I ?
Posts: 99 | Registered: Wednesday, August 13 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5091
Profile #1
It'd probably be easier to make the Windows version 3D than to port the Mac 3D editor, actually.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 643
Profile #2
I know I said I was planning to take a look at it, but eh, life had other plans, apologies to anyone who got their hopes up.

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Fine Meal is people!!!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #3
Arenax said he'd look into it, but I'm pretty sure he makes no promises, and I think it's also second on his priority list, behind a scripting helper. I don't know of any other efforts going on at the moment.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
Profile Homepage #4
I am looking into it. However, I DEFINITELY make no promises.

It'd be easier for me to write an editor from scratch, given JV's godawful code. It doesn't even compile on the version of CodeWarrior I managed to...uhh...procure.

So if I do it, I've got a laundry list of more important things first.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3340
Profile #5
Thanks for replies --- I now go over and sit on the window still and wait for some new games just around the corner....... :D

James

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Sometimes I just don't know anything about everything -- or do I ?
Posts: 99 | Registered: Wednesday, August 13 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
Profile Homepage #6
I doubt I'm going to even look at it for a few months at the least. I don't see a personal need for it, and I write tools that I will actually use. I can design just fine in 2D; a 3D editor is unnecessary for me.

AvScript and AvDialogue are more important tools than a 3D editor.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
Profile #7
Why not just get the maker of the Mac 3D Editor to port his own/Jeff's code using a free cross-platform class library?
Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 643
Profile #8
Possibly because I don't believe he has a PC available to test it on. Arenax's current projects sound far more interesting to me as well, I haven't had much problem with the 2D editor, a 3D one is just a nice want rather then a need.

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Fine Meal is people!!!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by KernelKnowledge12:

Why not just get the maker of the Mac 3D Editor to port his own/Jeff's code using a free cross-platform class library?
Because Jeff's code, to be very frank, sucks. I've looked at the Mac 3D code, and I find it wholly unportable. Graphics are handled entirely differently and the mechanism for putting them on the screen is weird on a Mac.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by Mortimer:

Possibly because I don't believe he has a PC available to test it on.
Hence the term, cross-platform library. If he uses one and it works on a Mac, it should work on any platform the library supports. He'd just have to get it to a PC to build the executable, which shouldn't be too hard considering the amount of programmers in this community.

quote:
Originally written by Mortimer:

Arenax's current projects sound far more interesting to me as well, I haven't had much problem with the 2D editor, a 3D one is just a nice want rather then a need.
A need would be an editor (3D or not) with plugin capabilities for the various smaller programs people are working on.

quote:
Originally written by Arenax:

Because Jeff's code, to be very frank, sucks. Graphics are handled entirely differently and the mechanism for putting them on the screen is weird on a Mac.
Of course it sucks. It's complicated and entirely too messy, but getting the gist of it isn't too hard, if you look at the right parts. Ignore the Mac graphic's code; it shouldn't matter. Look at how the program itself loads, and then the format of the scenario files.

[ Thursday, November 18, 2004 07:40: Message edited by: KernelKnowledge12 ]
Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #11
That would require re-writing the editor from scratch, wouldn't it? That's a slightly larger issue than adding a new capability or two.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
Profile #12
It would be rather difficult. Fortunately there are several libraries that would make it easier (wxWidgets, Boost, WideStudio, the famous STL and its many add-ons). Also much of file handling/scripting code can be copied and tweaked to favor a more object oriented approach.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5091
Profile #13
Well, the most important part would be to extract the scenario-saving parts of the editor and turn it into a good library. Then, you could write an editor for any platform with any language and any toolkit.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
Profile #14
The scenario-saving parts are extremely simple. Only the several simple classes (located I believe in global.h) in Jeff's code need to be copied and screwed with.

There is a scripting engine ( technically an engine) that loads the editor's global data (from the corescendata.txt files) that should not be copied. A quick lexer and parser should be created using the Script Checking program's grammar files, with FLEX++ and Bison++. The Bison++ input file should be tweaked to actually edit a ScenData object.

The graphical interface should use OpenGL, if it's meant to be fast. (An easier alternative, however, would be just to use a toolkit's graphical classes.) Using OpenGL would allow for shaders and therefore more flexible tinting code, but would take much longer to implement.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #15
Actually, I think the parts of the editor dealing with the file format are the nastiest and most arcane parts, with the possible exception of the script parsing. There is some weird magic for dealing with endian-ness that I don't want to touch with a bargepole, for a start.

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

desperance.net - Don't follow this link
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
Profile #16
quote:
Originally written by Khothie:

Actually, I think the parts of the editor dealing with the file format are the nastiest and most arcane parts, with the possible exception of the script parsing.
The saving and loading functions (for scenario files) are very simple, and its pretty easy to see how the files are stored:

Scenario Info Struct (Can't remember the real name)
Outdoor Sections
Towns (the size of each town differs based on the stored town size)

The editor's scripting functions are total and utter crap, but a more extensive one isn't neccessarily needed.

quote:
Originally written by Khothie:

There is some weird magic for dealing with endian-ness that I don't want to touch with a bargepole, for a start.
I think you're talking about the flipShort function. All it does is switch the two bytes contained in the given short. The following function would probably be better, if somewhat slower:

template< class _Ty >
_Ty& flipData( _Ty& d)
Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3610
Profile #17
KernelKnowledge, if it's such an easy process, and you have already figured it out, you should have no problem quickly converting the Mac 3D BoA editor to Windows.

On the other hand, if you have trouble putting your money where your mouth is, then maybe you should accept what others say.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #18
I am aware of the basic order of how things are stored. But remember that "scenario info struct" is not a simple thing. It depends on things like how the data is padded, whether chars are signed, how things have been endianised and so on.

I would love to see an actual file format specification. Please make one, I would genuinely find it useful.

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

desperance.net - Don't follow this link
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
Profile #19
quote:
Originally written by Dastal:

KernelKnowledge, if it's such an easy process, and you have already figured it out, you should have no problem quickly converting the Mac 3D BoA editor to Windows.
I never said it was easy. I screwed around with the original editor for a month over the summer and started working on a 3D editor using MFC/DirectX. (Before I started thinking cross-platform.) After a little I got an idea for a project that could potentially make me some money, so I dumped the editor.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
Profile Homepage #20
quote:
Originally written by KernelKnowledge12:

quote:
Originally written by Dastal:

KernelKnowledge, if it's such an easy process, and you have already figured it out, you should have no problem quickly converting the Mac 3D BoA editor to Windows.
I never said it was easy. I screwed around with the original editor for a month over the summer and started working on a 3D editor using MFC/DirectX. (Before I started thinking cross-platform.) After a little I got an idea for a project that could potentially make me some money, so I dumped the editor.

You said it was "simple." "Simple" and "easy" are interchangeable.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5091
Profile #21
Not at all. It's simple to run for 5 miles up a mountain -- you point yourself and start pushing your legs. It's not easy at all.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
Profile Homepage #22
I know, Djur. Sarcasm doesn't really transfer as well as I'd like.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00