VoDT: Steal the waveblade?
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, April 16 2004 07:04
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Do the Vahnatai mind at all if you steal the waveblade, cloaks, or razordisk from their trunk? I tried it just to see how good a 'fine waveblade' might be, and was surprised that I got no 'your crime was noticed' warning, nor did the three Vahnatai sitting right there seem to mind in the least. But will they still save my bacon when the time comes? Also, how come you can't learn Capture Mind or Simulacrum from them, either? I tried with a mage skill of 10, and was refused both for not having high enough skill, even though the Info page says that Capture Mind needs only skill 9 to cast. Finally, how does the fine waveblade compare to the flaming sword? I think it's about the same, since the base damages are 5-30 versus 3-18 + 8 fire. But the flaming sword is supposed to be worth 2-1/2 times what the fine waveblade is worth; what's with that? Is Vahnatai style passe this year? Is it just so handy to be able to heat up your dried meat without having to gather wood? -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, April 16 2004 07:15
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I stole the waveblade, and while I'm pretty sure I do remember getting a "your crime was seen" message, the Vahnatai didn't go hostile and I was able to finish the scenario without trouble. It's a great weapon, so I strongly recommend stealing the thing. I prefer the waveblade over the flaming sword; the flaming sword is only more expensive because a magical item is always much more expensive than a non-magical one. And, uh, I was able to learn Capture Mind and Simulacrum from them. Odd. [ Friday, April 16, 2004 07:17: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 18
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written Friday, April 16 2004 08:14
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I would kill two and a half times more people in order to get my hands on a Flaming Sword™ than I would for some stinky Waveblade. Even if it is a "Fine" one. All hail the guy with the flaming sword! He is two and a half times more cool than that other guy with the bent one! Md. Posts: 304 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4074
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written Friday, April 16 2004 08:24
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id assume the flaming sword would have a slight advantage against armor wearing enemies since armor doesnt block fire dam.....but does physical dam. least no armor they wear blocks fire. but ive never actually tested this, just thinking logically Posts: 47 | Registered: Sunday, March 7 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, April 16 2004 10:57
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The fire damage really isn't anything impressive, and there are plenty of fire resistant and fire immune critters running around. The fine waveblade doesn't have the literal bang of the flaming sword, but the damage it does is definitely more impressive, even against armor. —Alorael, who would rather have a fine, flaming waveblade. Or a pair of them. Alas, such items seem to have fallen out of favor in Avernum. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 455
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written Friday, April 16 2004 11:11
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There are daggers that are better than that flaming sword. -------------------- Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white. Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, April 16 2004 12:12
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You mean the Assassin's Dagger? The stat bonuses look very nice, but base damage isn't quite in the same league. I keep it around, but use it intermittently. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Friday, April 16 2004 12:45
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A flaming weapon does damage anyway to fire-immune creatures in BoE. Did he get it fixed for Avernums? EDIT: (Specifically, Blades of Avernum. I could probably find out for Av1, but it'd take awhile.) [ Friday, April 16, 2004 12:46: Message edited by: Dasar Prop ] -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Friday, April 16 2004 12:49
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"Flaming" and "Lightning" weapons did typeless bonus damage in BoE. They properly do elemental damage in BoA, according to the docs. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 455
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written Friday, April 16 2004 12:53
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Thruyl: That was one of them. What are you counting as base damage? The raw base of the assassin's dagger is higher, isn't it?. I found the difference in "base" bonuses consistently significant only at higher levels. But since JV tends to juice up combat difficulty with quantity rather than quality, the dagger's skill bonuses were ultimately of even greater significance in actual play at those levels, resulting in 40-70 more damage from the dagger, depending on the opponent. (So obviously, scenario design skews the comparison: that figure is from Z-K Run; I sold the flaming sword, so I can't quickly test, say, DwD.) The sword's flame bonus is meaningless. Not that I think that dagger is a good idea -- handing a growing party that many free skill points is a disaster for balance. -------------------- Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white. Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, April 16 2004 13:06
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The assassin's dagger is 5-25+1-5/lvl. The fine waveblade is 5-30+1-6/lvl. Not a huge advantage, certainly, but at medium/high levels it adds up to maybe an extra 10 points of damage per hit on average. I'm not certain the dagger increases assassination chance enough to compensate for this, and all other things being equal, consistent damage is better than inconsistent damage anyway. (Unless Anatomy and/or Assassination significantly affects damage even when you don't assassinate.) As for dagger vs flaming sword (which is actually the important consideration for me, since I have two melee fighters), hmm. 3-18+8F+1-6/L vs 5-25+1-5/L plus some stat bonuses. Fairly similar to the above situation, although that fire damage is less reliable. I'm not sure if the advantage of the dagger is quantifiable, and it's going to vary with the stats of both the wielder and the target, but as you say, intuition says that that many points of combat skills has to be worth something. [ Friday, April 16, 2004 13:15: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 455
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written Friday, April 16 2004 13:11
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Sorry -- we're talking at cross purposes -- I meant only the flaming sword, which Alorael was discussing in the post before my first. Fine waveblade is a fine thing. I've found it about equal to the dagger (provided I'm not playing with the fighter who dumped everything that should've gone into assassination into strength and other bonus-producing skills), but I feel much cleaner using the waveblade or the blessed longsword. EDIT: I'm fairly sure the assassin's dagger doesn't increase your chances of assassinating at all. But in a high level Vogel scenario, where battles are typically by volume or attrition, you're likely to assassinate everything -- sometimes including major NPCs -- so the damage bonus proves almost automatic. [ Friday, April 16, 2004 13:34: Message edited by: Boots ] -------------------- Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white. Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, April 16 2004 14:57
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Okay, so the waveblade is better because a lot of enemies are immune to the fire damage, and the price differential is due to the market's magic fetish. Thanks. It's weird that these Vahnatai don't want their cool stuff that much. Or is the whole race notably mellow? I think maybe I failed to learn those spells because my fighter was doing the talking. I assumed that conversations involved the whole party but maybe this isn't so. Where is this Assassin's Dagger? I'd hunt around for it myself, you know, but I'm almost through VoDT for the second quite thorough time and I'm just not up for combing the whole place yet again looking at every dagger. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, April 16 2004 15:03
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Whoops. The dagger is in ASR. Sorry. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
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written Sunday, April 18 2004 09:00
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quote:When learning spells you need to select the character you want to learn the spell by clicking their portrait or typing their number. It's just like when buying/selling their stuff. :) -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |