canopy (this is weird)(and funny)

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AuthorTopic: canopy (this is weird)(and funny)
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #25
quote:
Originally written by Le Martyre de la Terreur:

Kel, Canopy "levels" you up. When you leave it, if you have one of the two swords, Adlerauge, the Miracle items, some of the Illusory items, etc... You're FAR more than +10-20 levels higher than you would have been. Canopy doesn't pimp you, it pimps your ride.
See, this is bad etiquette because of what it does to designers. It basically makes it impossible to produce useful level recommendations when treasure balance varies so broadly between different scenarios for the same level, so there's no way to know if a level-40 party will come in with steel weapons (HLPM) or ludicrous ones (Canopy).

Anyway, I just got through replaying Canopy. It's not as good as I remembered (although some of the bad parts aren't as bad as I remembered either). I'll leave my CSR rating as it stands out of courtesy (and in acknowledgement of the scenario's likely historical value). No other horrendous combat loopholes, although Unumstosslich and Shroud's third form are remarkably vulnerable to Shinibiimu and Shinigami respectively.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #26
I think HLPM parties should be used as the standard for level recommendations. People can adjust for their own ability and equipment from there.

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #27
I disagree with this- thus my making the Artifacts Hall.

Honestly, the HLPM makes pitifully weak parties. Bahssikava, for instance, cannot be realistically (or at least *enjoyably*) beaten by a level 30-40 party without being artifact-blessed. Furthermore, EM was designed exclusively to bypass ZKR- which is why its artifacts are so incredibly out of line by comparison.

There are "curves" of items and spell levels in BoA which is made by JV's scenarios. (And even though JV has problems with his scenarios, balance of artifacts is not one of 'em.) EM is purposefully above this curve for its level, whereas Canopy is actually much closer than it appears. (Well, save for Adler and Maxim.) Bahssikava is good and well below this curve, especially for the crazy-deprived magi in a player's arsenal. Calindor is at the correct place on the curve. Magic Plate Mail, however, is not.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #28
quote:
Originally written by Le Martyre de la Terreur:

Honestly, the HLPM makes pitifully weak parties. Bahssikava, for instance, cannot be realistically (or at least *enjoyably*) beaten by a level 30-40 party without being artifact-blessed.
I used a level-30 HLPM party for Bahssikava and didn't even find most of it that difficult.

quote:
There are "curves" of items and spell levels in BoA which is made by JV's scenarios. (And even though JV has problems with his scenarios, balance of artifacts is not one of 'em.) EM is purposefully above this curve for its level, whereas Canopy is actually much closer than it appears. (Well, save for Adler and Maxim.)
I'll grant that if one looks at, say, DwtD for comparison, the spell balance is pretty close to what it should be (except for the level-10 Create Illusions, which is a crime against God and man). As for item balance, it may be mostly okay (at least as far as the purchaseable items go), but then you get those artifacts which throw the whole thing off.

quote:
Bahssikava is good and well below this curve, especially for the crazy-deprived magi in a player's arsenal.
Okay, considering how high-level a Bahss party is likely to end up, that much I'm willing to agree with. (Treasure balance was significantly improved since the first beta, though. It's still on the low side in terms of items that are actually useful, but not too bad.)

quote:
Calindor is at the correct place on the curve. Magic Plate Mail, however, is not.
On the other hand, Bahss's Robes of the Magi are a lot closer to the right balance than Canopy's zero-encumbrance Mithril Plate.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
BoE Posse
Member # 112
Profile #29
A bug that I found:
When you cast Summon Beast, you will often get important NPCs. The kind of NPCs you face in boss fights. Slightly unbalancing to say the least.

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Rate my scenarios!

Areni
Revenge
To Live in Fear
Deadly Goblins
Ugantan Nightmare
Isle of Boredom
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #30
Hm. That means TM isn't clearing the summon levels on his NPCs. He probably should.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #31
Hey, that ain't a bug. GOBLIN PUNCH!!!!! comes in very handy.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #32
quote:
Originally written by The Creator:

A bug that I found:
When you cast Summon Beast, you will often get important NPCs. The kind of NPCs you face in boss fights. Slightly unbalancing to say the least.

I defeated Trahison through liberal summoning of goblins.

And through the overuse of Blattstrahl, which appears to take no APs when used thus enabling me to obliterate an army in a single turn. :P

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Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
I have a love of woodwind instruments.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #33
quote:
Originally written by Le Martyre de la Terreur:

Honestly, the HLPM makes pitifully weak parties. Bahssikava, for instance, cannot be realistically (or at least *enjoyably*) beaten by a level 30-40 party without being artifact-blessed.
For the record, I beat Bahssikava with a level 40 HLPM party, and we know what you think of my skill as a player. Rather than calling your playing ability shoddy and then editing it out later in order to get away with it, I'm just going to say that scenarios are easier to their designers than to others.

quote:
Originally written by Le Martyre de la Terreur:

There are "curves" of items and spell levels in BoA which is made by JV's scenarios. (And even though JV has problems with his scenarios, balance of artifacts is not one of 'em.)
I made the HLPM presuming a linear relationship, which may not have been entirely accurate. But I examined carefully the spells and skill available in the four pre-packaged scenarios, omitting special artifacts and including default ones, as I was making it.

For the record, if anyone wants to re-do the item balance in the HLPM, you're welcome to do so, and I will examine the changes made and include them if I consider them an improvement. The code is pretty obvious in that regard -- the main difficulty is deciding what each level range should get.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00

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