The Body Snatchers

AuthorTopic: The Body Snatchers
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #0
NPR is the demon of the information age.

Listen to the story, and then respond to the poll.

Those unable to listen, ask me about it and I will tell you how to answer the poll.

Oh, and discuss this, as I find it fascinating stuff.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 0 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=edxmhiSBTFbo"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=edxmhiSBTFbo"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window IMAGE(votenow.gif)     IMAGE(voteresults.gif)

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Synergy - "I don't get it."

Dikiyoba - "Dang. I'm one firecracker short from getting a gourd potion today."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #1
I wouldn't want my child to be a police officer or soldier.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4638
Profile #2
One part of me thinks: Nice to see someone is training today's Hitler Youth. We need someone to train today's youth to respect authority. Respect my authority.

On the other hand: Part of the story seems to suggest that it is teaching children to respect society's rules. In many situations, I think it is beneficial for children to be trained to respect society's rules. However, they should also be taught how to initiate changes in those rules in non-violent ways (preferably by working within the established system, if possible).

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You are asleep.
Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be.
So it goes.
Posts: 93 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #3
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

I wouldn't want my child to be a police officer or soldier.
That is an interesting response. Seriously. Because I didn't ask that question, yet it is the second time I've heard that response. The program described is operating under the assumption that your child is already a discipline problem, and is in serious danger of slipping through the societal cracks into drug/alcohol use, gangs, etc. This isn't a summer camp chosen because the butterfly pinning camp is full.

So, given [suspend disbelief] the unruly nature of you child, and the utter hopelessness you feel about the situation, would you send your child to this program. [/suspend disbelief]

Side note, at this point no one is completely sure that children in this program (who complete it) have a higher than normal chance of becoming a cop. All they know now is that they mostly become better citizens(?!) with fewer discipline problems, which is the exact goal desired by parents and teachers.

The Explorer program, on the other hand, seems designed to train the next generation of HY. Don't get them confused. :mad:

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Synergy - "I don't get it."

Dikiyoba - "Dang. I'm one firecracker short from getting a gourd potion today."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4638
Profile #4
I don't think I got them confused. Any such program aimed at teaching the young that authority is absolute, as seems to be the case in the program I listened to, can have its dangers. However, anarchy is as much of as a danger as fascism...

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You are asleep.
Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be.
So it goes.
Posts: 93 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #5
It was also pointed out to me last night that only recently has youth in America enjoyed any freedoms at all. Prior to the regrettable advent of youth labor laws, children were expected to contribute to the family needs instead of being a constant drain. In a rural situation, children were expected to contribute through labor equivalent to ability, while in the more urban areas they would either work or care for younger siblings. Before decrying the unjust/unfair/unwhatever of that system, remember that those children turned into our grandparents or parents. It was only due to the efforts of a handful of do-gooders, and perhaps a few firetraps, that that system broke down at all. It seems that this Anaheim program is merely trying to restore some of the discipline and personal accountability that has been lost due to the changes in society in the 20th century.

Oh, and I found it refreshingly Orwellian that the weblink on the Anaheim PD website that points to this program has been adjusted to redirect back to the homepage. :D

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Synergy - "I don't get it."

Dikiyoba - "Dang. I'm one firecracker short from getting a gourd potion today."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5310
Profile #6
I was almost afraid of looking at the poll results.
It turned out OK though.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Monday, December 20 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #7
No, you are supposed to train the hell out of your children in America so they can become PhDs in ridiculous subjects, or professional athletes-- sonny or daughtery go to the game or I will chase you with my plastic baseball bat or balsa wood hockey stick at an early age...

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1934
Profile Homepage #8
Why do you think being a cop is not a respectable job?

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You acquire an item: Radio Free Foil
Posts: 1169 | Registered: Monday, September 23 2002 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Sarcasmon:

It was only due to the efforts of a handful of do-gooders, and perhaps a few firetraps, that that system broke down at all.
Might it be fair to say that it had more to do with economic and technological advances enabling people to live more independently of one another?
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #10
A cop is a respectable job for a steady even handed, physically fit person with a good command of the english language.

However, we are talking about turning people who like to kill small animals, start fires, play violent games, and do experimental things with alcohol and drugs into cops. The mind set doesn't fit.

It might work better if you chose something different like smoke jumping, drag racing, extreme sports, construction demolition, etc.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #11
Originally by I'll Steal Your Toast:

quote:
However, we are talking about turning people who like to kill small animals, start fires, play violent games, and do experimental things with alcohol and drugs into cops. The mind set doesn't fit.
Isn't the goal of a camp or program like to this to change the mind sets of these people so they don't do those sorts of things?

Dikiyoba.

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Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #12
quote:
Originally written by Drew:

Might it be fair to say that it had more to do with economic and technological advances enabling people to live more independently of one another?
... Maybe. Certainly there have been advances made, but the fact that sweatshops still exist, and that factory workers die in fire-trap building, seems to indicate that it is more a societal pressure that eliminated that practice than a reduction in economic demand. People continue to want more money in order to have more product that is pressured upon them by more media and marketing. This money comes from either traditional bread-winners, or through the additional efforts of other family members.

Another thought I had yesterday, distinct from whatever reply existed to Drew, is the issue of training children to work for money. When I was a kid I got an allowance for doing certain things around the house. I think it was 50 cents a week, and it was dependent on lawn being mowed or driveway cleared. That my room was clean and tidy was not meritorious. I'm not sure if I learned anything from this system, at least any more than I would have learned without the carrot. I knew that my assistance in such matters was required, and the alternative was hiring out. Since the Anaheim program seems to be one that encourages a mindset change to personal accountability and responsibility, and the poll results seem to indicate that mindset generally exists in this subset, I would ask if other people have had similar rearing experiences, or if their attitude comes from a different experience.

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Synergy - "I don't get it."

Dikiyoba - "Dang. I'm one firecracker short from getting a gourd potion today."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7125
Profile #13
Im on a MAC I can't listen to it because the players are for Windows. Can you tell me about it?

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I am a related to a witch who was burned in the Salem Witch Trials. I study magic,witchcraft and other paranormal stuff. I love BOA and Avernum 3, Sims 2 and Nancy Drew! Feel free to rate my karma.
Posts: 130 | Registered: Saturday, May 13 2006 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #14
Is it training children to make money, or rather training children in the rudiments of taking care of themselves? One could make a pretty compelling argument that the two go hand in hand in our society, unless you're Amish or something, but even then, it all boils down to an exchange of your labor for something else.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
BANNED
Member # 10021
Profile #15
I don't understand why people think people who do drugs or drink like to kill small animals, start fires, or play volent games.

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When I close my eyes at night I see David Bowie.
Posts: 157 | Registered: Saturday, August 25 2007 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #16
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Sarcasmon:

quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

I wouldn't want my child to be a police officer or soldier.
That is an interesting response. Seriously. Because I didn't ask that question, yet it is the second time I've heard that response. ...So, given [suspend disbelief] the unruly nature of you child, and the utter hopelessness you feel about the situation, would you send your child to this program. [/suspend disbelief]

Maybe I misheard, because I thought right at the beginning if the story it mentioned the police force needing more recruits and some sort of hope that this program would aid that need. I also didn't get that it was only for "troubled" kids. I thought I remembered hearing someone say it could help excessively shy children with low self-esteem.

But either way, my answer is still no. For the record I respect cops and soldiers, I just wouldn't want my child to be one. So there's no way I'd put them in any military-like camp.

I think children are still allowed to work at a family business. I'm fairly sure that they are in Michigan. I'm all for a firm hand of discipline and teaching responsibility. How this is done depends on the parents and the child, but it has to start young. I just left the home of Chinese family that is afraid to discipline their 6 yr old because of abuse laws. He is disrespectful and disruptive to the extreme. I think they may recognize the path he's headed down, but just lack the tools to discipline properly. That's probably true of a lot of those kids parents in the Anaheim program.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #17
Thanks for expanding.

For the record, I'm not entirely sure that there is a right answer to the perceived problem. Sure, there are kids that are not lockstep with the majority, and that isn't a change. What may be more of the issue is that our increased population, and population density, may be magnifying the situation. I'm pretty sure the problem will increase, and (at least the USA) prison population will rise as a result. The majority will continue to be (de facto) law abiding, and will continue wondering how the situation could have gotten so bad. Perhaps a moratorium on new abuse laws, coupled with a roll-back of the last 15 years of such laws. Like you implied, Stillness, that a family is hesitant to discipline a 6 year old removes the seat of power from the family and places it in the courts. That is exactly the type of situation that you seem to want to avoid, which is the exact goal of the Anaheim program.

I did, I admit, gloss over the shy-kid part of the program, mostly because I remember hearing it as part of the Explorer program (a separate thing) and partly because it didn't seem to be the focus.

The part of that segment that freaked me out was the end, where the voice-over was describing the training given to the Explorers so that they could effectively yelltrain the younger kids much like a drill sergeant would yelltrain raw recruits. That, more than anything scared me. Not for me personally, but for the future of our policing bodies. If they feel that that sort of behaviour is required in order to engender respect, I've got to wonder where this country is headed.

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Synergy - "I don't get it."

Dikiyoba - "Dang. I'm one firecracker short from getting a gourd potion today."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00