This probly belongs on WoTC, but...

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AuthorTopic: This probly belongs on WoTC, but...
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #25
quote:
Originally written by Drew:

If "Kitten" took out those three creatures simultaneously single-handedly, then your DM isn't using them correctly.
Perhaps... They were kinda were focusing more on the other characters than they probly should have been. Though, come to think of it, only Kitten and Hide(not pronounced how it looks) were the only ones who took any damage. Probly cause the Radiant Dragon and the other guy didn't do that much other than pull Hide out of the fight when he was getting creamed by just one opponent.

But seriously though, Improved Power Attack combined with Rage, Frenzy, and Kitten's high pluses to hit, high strength, & use of a full-blade make for a very deadly combination

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"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #26
I had a post, but it has been lost to the vagaries of the internet. I'll state it more briefly.

1. Do creations advance normally when you add HD, or do they just get HP? If they do advance, they still need a creature type. Are they magical beasts?

2. A shaper with 16 constitution gets 8 essence per level even if you ignore bonuses. That's a creation with as many HD as the shaper and 7 extra points per level or two creations with 3 extra points. Doesn't that open the door to making creations far more powerful than any PC should be at a given level? It seems to get worse as levels increase.

—Alorael, who doesn't even particularly need to play with stats and feats and such. Anything with 80 strength has a problem. At the very least the costs for ability boosts need to be non-linear. Maybe take a hint from Spiderweb and have the cost increase by one for every two points spent.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #27
The hit points add on is just hit dice, that's it. Other than giving the ability to give creations some better stuff, the hit points only give just that, hit points.

As far as type and subtype are concerned... it's never really come up before. All I've had to establish is that all creations fall under the same category when it comes to stuff like Bane and Favored Enemy. I suppose Magical Beast for all non-humanoids would be the easiest way to cover that one.

Edit: The base template is what you get for 1 point. It never improves(I tried one that did and it was a big pain). All you can do is spend more points to add onto the base template.

[ Wednesday, March 14, 2007 15:04: Message edited by: Ktgsvgnfgn ]

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"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Ktgsvgnfgn:

quote:
Originally written by Drew:

If "Kitten" took out those three creatures simultaneously single-handedly, then your DM isn't using them correctly.
Perhaps... They were kinda were focusing more on the other characters than they probly should have been. Though, come to think of it, only Kitten and Hide(not pronounced how it looks) were the only ones who took any damage. Probly cause the Radiant Dragon and the other guy didn't do that much other than pull Hide out of the fight when he was getting creamed by just one opponent.

But seriously though, Improved Power Attack combined with Rage, Frenzy, and Kitten's high pluses to hit, high strength, & use of a full-blade make for a very deadly combination

What Drew really means to say is that unless Kitten killed the Pit Fiend before it got any actions, it should probably have just begun using its spell-like ability of Blasphemy every round, which would have effectively killed all of the non-Evil members of the party with no save - like Kitten, who at level 17 would have been unable to act ever again as long as it kept using Blasphemy, as well as losing 2d6 points of Strength every round. Failing that, if most of the party was evil, it could have used Mass Hold Monster every turn, forcing a DC 27 Will save on practically the entire party versus effective death.

Meanwhile, the Balor should begin using Implosion, forcing a DC 27 Fort save versus death (as not a death effect, so Death Ward doesn't stop this!) on the party's spellcasters. Alternatively, if Kitten DID drop the Pit Fiend in one round, the Balor could also have started in with the Blasphemies.

And the Solar? A Solar is a 20th-level Cleric with totally awesome other abilities for practically free. If it can't figure out how to kill you in a few seconds, it should just Gate in someone who does - like another Solar.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #29
Never mind the question of what those three extraplanar entities with incredibly disparate alignments were doing working together to begin with. Not that it would matter, what with Kitten wielding that +10 hackmaster, right?

IMAGE(http://www.otal.umd.edu/~vg/msf95/ms18/guild.jpg)
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #30
Um, quick question: How does something that requires a "Save or die" not count as a death effect?

EDIT: That one confuses me

Further Edit:

I'm pretty sure our DM was mostly going off the "Round by Round" tactics in the book for that fight. With the one exception of the stuff that involved any sort of extra-dimensional travel(ie Gate, Dimension Door, Teleport, Planeshift ect), which I suppose does lower the CR of each creature to something closer to what we should have been fighting(and kinda taking a little away from Kitten's glory-not that it matters anyway-).

Btw. For keeping score, Kitten isn't one of my characters. A friend of mine made him(origonally as a joke character -obviously-).

[ Saturday, March 17, 2007 17:10: Message edited by: Ktgsvgnfgn ]

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"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by Ktgsvgnfgn:

Um, quick question: How does something that requires a "Save or die" not count as a death effect?
Only spells with the [Death] descriptor count as death effects. Disintegrate isn't a death effect either.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #32
Okay... If it doesn't have death, it isn't death, got it.

On a side note... How's this for an improvement on the restriction of spell-like abilities creations can have:

Ability Cost Limit Description
Any Spell-like +1/day 1 point per spell lv infinate Can use a spell as a spell-like ability once a day per total
+1/day times this ability is taken. Max spell-lv bestowable is 1/2
the creation's hit dice(lv spells at 1 hit dice, max lv 4 spells
at 8 hit dice)

Damaging Spell-like 3 points per spll lv Once per Can use a damaging spell as a spell-like ability at will, max
ability at will ability spell-lv bestowable is 1/3 creation's hit dice
(lv 1 spells at 1 hit dice, max lv 5 spells at 15 hit dice)

Healing Spell-like 4 points per spell lv Once per Can use a healing spell as a spell-like ability at will, max
at will ability spell-lv bestowable is 1/4 creation's hit dice
(lv 0 spells at 1 hit dice, max lv 4 spells at 16 hit dice)

Ultility Spell-like 2 points per spell lv Once per Can use a non-healing, non-damaging utility spell as a
ability at will ability spell-like ability at will, max spell-lv bestowable is
1/3 creation's hit dice (lv 1 spells at 1 hit dice, max lv
6 spells at 18 hit dice)
EDIT: Wait, Implosion does not actually deal damage like Disintegrate does. Anything that requires a "Save or Die" and does not deal actual damage should be covered under Deathward as per the following:

"The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects(such as from inflict light wounds or chill touch)"

Note that "death spells" and "magical death effects" are not the same thing.

[ Sunday, March 18, 2007 07:18: Message edited by: Ktgsvgnfgn ]

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"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #33
Yes, I know I'm going to hell for double posting, but I kinda had to do it.

Lv BA FS RS WS Spec 0 1 2 3 4 5
1 0 0 0 2 Create/ 2
Absorb Life
2 1 0 0 3 3 0
3 1 1 1 3 3 1
4 2 1 1 4 3 2 0
5 2 1 1 4 3 3 1
6 3 2 2 5 3 3 2
7 3 2 2 5 3 3 3
8 4 2 2 6 3 3 3 0
9 4 3 3 6 3 3 3 1
10 5 3 3 7 3 3 3 2
11 5 3 3 7 3 3 3 3
12 6/1 4 4 8 3 3 3 3 0
13 6/1 4 4 8 3 3 3 3 1
14 7/2 4 4 9 4 3 3 3 2
15 7/2 5 5 9 4 4 3 3 3
16 8/3 5 5 10 Alter creature 4 4 3 3 3
17 8/3 5 5 10 4 4 4 3 3 0
18 9/4 6 6 11 4 4 4 3 3 1
19 9/4 6 6 11 4 4 4 3 3 2
20 10/5 6 6 12 Advanced 4 4 4 3 3 3
Creation


Spells Known

Lv 0 1 2 3 4 5
1 3
2 3 1
3 3 2
4 3 3 1
5 3 3 2
6 3 3 3
7 3 3 3
8 3 3 3 1
9 3 3 3 2
10 3 3 3 3
11 3 3 3 3
12 3 3 3 3 1
13 3 3 3 3 2
14 3 3 3 3 3
15 3 3 3 3 3
16 3 3 3 3 3
17 3 3 3 3 3 1
18 3 3 3 3 3 2
19 3 3 3 3 3 3
20 3 3 3 3 3 3
Spells

0 Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic, Light, Mending, Create Meal, Prestigitation

1 Bless, Burning Hands, Command, Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements,
Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Mage Armor, Ray of Enfeeblement, Magic Weapon

2 Bull's Strength, Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Invisibility, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility,
Lessor Restoration

3 Bestow Curse, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Neutralize Poison, Remove Curse,
Remove Disease, Toungues, Fly

4 Cure Critical Wounds, Restoration, Dimension Door

5 Break Enchantment, Heal, Raise Dead, Wall of Stone, Hold Monster, Teleport


With the new restrictions to creation abilities in mind, does this seems like a good way to do spells for them? Or are the added creation restrictions still not enough to make them able to have spells yet?

[ Tuesday, March 20, 2007 15:28: Message edited by: Ktgsvgnfgn ]

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"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00

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