Off the top of your head
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Monday, July 10 2006 11:57
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If ye want to hear some bad music, try listening to Lordi . I'm sure you won't be disappointed. -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Monday, July 10 2006 12:31
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quote:It's just sad when politics gets in the way of appreciating a good paean to booty. http://partyhardultimate.ytmnd.com/ Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, July 10 2006 23:33
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quote:You mean Baby Got Back? -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 10:09
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quote:Well, of course the most popular music of any particular time is almost never the best music of its time, and is quite often close to the worst. The Beatles were deservedly popular, of course, but even in their case the album tracks were usually superior to the hit singles. However, at least until around 1975 the prevailing popular music had some semblance of good taste. That is, the production was not gratingly excessive, and there was usually enough creativity and tunefulness thrown about to make things tolerable. However, most pop/rock music after that point, especially the mainstream stuff, has been disturbingly unoriginal, at best generically tuneful, and never memorable. And it's been gratuitously overproduced as well. One of the reasons why so much sixties music is so great is that the music industry of the time was hardly as well-established and controlling as it is today. But as record company executives began to realize the monetary possibilities of pop/rock music, they began to organize themselves and exert greater control over the music itself. "Corporate rock" was born, and with its birth came the end of any semblance of commercial success for those artists and bands that sought to test the boundaries of the music form, or really do anything that wasn't a guaranteed commercial proposition. Pop and rock music have never been the same since. [ Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:24: Message edited by: Stugri-La ] -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 11:07
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Partial list of music produced post 75 that is important or relevant - Bruce Springsteen (virtually entire catelogue is post '75) Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler as a solo artist (entirely post '75) Led Zeppelin - In Through the Out Door (1978) Robert Plant - Now and Zen (1988) Lou Reed - Street Hassle (1978) The Clash - London Calling (1980) U2's career, Dead Kennedys - entire career especially Frankenchrist (1985), Prince, Slayer, Beastie Boys. Innovative music included the punk movement, new wave, speed metal, the marriage of country and pop, rap, Seattle grunge scene, inclusion of world music. And I won't go into independents but local scenes are alive and triving with independent music companies, private recording studios, internet expansion of the market. Go beyond American Idol. The expansion and diversification of the music scene has been incredible during the last 30 years. If you cannot find anything but corporate rock you are not listening to the right stuff. -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 11:56
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Stratovarius - Playing With Fire Final Countdown - Norther Deliverance - Opeth Dante's Inferno - Iced Earth Sirenia - Sister Nightfall Sonata Arctica - Mary Lou Soilwork - The Analyst Queensrÿche - Empire Poisonblack - Love Infernal Nightwish - 10th Man Down. I couldn't pick 10 favorite songs, so I picked 10 bands and chose at random. I would like my list as a playlist. @Stug: Metal was invented in the late 60's, it has evolved far, far from the same old cookie-cutter bands found in pop or rock. Lots of bands do sound similar, but musical experimentation can always find a home in metal. -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 17:16
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quote:Yeah, yeah. I told you I was bad with names, though I'm incredibly apt at memorizing lyrics... *runs through song in head* ...yep still there, mostly. tAlec You been watching So You Think You Can Dance? That Benji, he sure is good. [ Tuesday, July 11, 2006 17:17: Message edited by: Jewels ] -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 08:18
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quote:First of all, some of the artists/bands you mention had their start long before 1975, and practically all of these are known to have produced their best work before 1975. Although I'm not much of a Led Zep fan I'm aware that the apex of their career is thought to lie in the early 70s. And I'll be damned if Lou Reed ever produced anything in his solo career that can stand up to the innovation and originality of his 60s Velvet Underground work. As for Springsteen, I can't stand his creaky, screeching voice and I've never heard a damn thing out of him that was remotely interesting (and I lived with a Springsteen fanatic, so I've experienced the full, grating gamut of his work). I've heard a few Dire Straits songs and they were thoroughly boring and uninteresting as well. U2 might have done some decent work in the 80s, but it was never terribly original and they sold out quite fast. I don't at all care for punk, so the Clash is out. Prince was supposedly innovative for his genre, but that genre is a hard pill for me to swallow. I've never heard any Dead Kennedys, but I assume they're punk as well. And of course I enjoyed the Beastie Boys as an adolescent, but I knew then and I sure as hell know now that they're not worth a damn. quote:Well, as I mentioned, I don't like punk. It's just plain tuneless much of the time, the aesthetic does absolutely nothing for me, and being a person of the relaxed variety I don't much care for the unsettling speed of the songs. That's not to say that I don't like fast playing; I do, but I enjoy it more for the sake of intricacy than for the sake of sending unpleasant shivers up my spine. But seeing as I'm a devotee of prog rock, which most punks hate (because it's thoroughly over their inadequate heads), I suppose I might just feel the need to hate back. Some new wave is all right, I'll admit. I have been known to enjoy some Police or Squeeze now and then. But, although the Police and a few other New Wavers were somewhat original, their brand of originality usually has next to no impact on me. As for metal, I must say that I hate it. The early stuff in the evolution of the genre is okay, but I find the later stuff to be gratingly loud, formulaic, and tuneless. That goes double for speed metal, which seems to combine two of my least favorite genres (punk and metal) in one. Country and pop fusion? That was old news by '75, son. Come back to me after you've listened to some 60s bands like The Flying Burrito Brothers, a band that truly pioneered the country rock genre. Be sure it's the first album you're listening to, though, because Gram Parsons wasn't with them for long. Rap, as I already mentioned, is something I do not care for. The same goes for the grunge scene, which, although sporadically entertaining (I still get a guilty pleasure out of listening to Soundgarden) usually consisted of melodically poor, derivative, draggy dreck. I'll give you a point for the world music stuff. The most heralded recordings in the genre that I'm aware of are the Paul Simon Graceland albums in the 80s. But, of course, such efforts hardly fall in the category of "white people music," do they? Of course, Paul was white, but most of his compatriots on those albums weren't. World music is, by definition, music for and by people of all colors. I'm not terribly well versed in the world music scene, so I'll stop here. I suppose our disagreement boils down to our differing appreciation of genres. I enjoy practically every genre which emerged up until the dawn of the seventies: blues, folk (American and especially British), rock 'n' roll, soul, all the various sorts of psychedelia, country-rock, progressive rock, and funk. I happen not to much care for any of the genres that originated later. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 08:31
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quote:You must have meant music composed/performed by white people, right? Otherwise I have a hard time swallowing that music such as that found on Graceland is primarily enjoyed by people other than Caucasian. I can appreciate that you have your own group of musical styles that you enjoy. I think that we are all like that. It just seems rather elitist of you to point out that only those styles you don't like are those sames ones that lack style, substance, or originality. But, it is that attitude that endears you. :P -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 08:46
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What can I say? At least in my mind, my tastes are impeccable, and no other viewpoint is legitimate. I don't know exactly why this is the case, and I often do feel a certain sense of guilt about it, but it can't be helped. Or perhaps it could be helped, but I myself find that quality in myself so endearing that I simply don't bother to help it. :P -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 09:16
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quote:Obviously you've been listening to too much nu metal. Real metal is far from formulatic and tuneless, and "gratingly loud" is subjective. Metal and punk have just about nothing to do with one another. When a metal band does start including punk, it is quicly labled a sellout and therefore not 'true' metal by any metalheads*. Speed metal is a sub-subgenre of thrash metal that is less brutal than thrash metal (sort of along the lines of bay area thrash), yet more extreme than power metal. Bands that fall into this category would be along the lines of early Helloween, Angel Dust, early Blind Guardian etc. As you are a fan of progressive rock, I suggest you listen to bands such as Rush, Queensrÿche, Echosilence, Dream Theater and Opeth. Five very good (wow, subjective, it must be true, though because someone said it.) bands, the first two, progressive hard-rock, the third, modern jazz/progressive metal, the fourth, progressive metal and the fifth progressive metal/death metal. As a drummer myself, I know how difficult and, in numerous cases, impossible for someone who has been drumming for seven years, songs by those artists can be to play. . *I use the term metalhead to describe a person who listens to and only to metal. [ Wednesday, July 12, 2006 09:19: Message edited by: radix malorum est cupiditas ] -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 09:22
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quote:And that was the point of my postings. Your mind is too narrow, biased and influenced by personal tastes to evaluate modern music and call it all formulaic corporate crap. Music that I listed included genres that I do not follow/appreciate but are innovative in their own right. Bands that had their start in the sixties and early 70's continued to produce quality work post '75 as attested by the works mentioned earlier by Led Zep and Lou Reed. You may be qualified to comment on prog rock but you are obviously not able to comment on anything else. And if you listen to soul/R&B and have never heard of Remy Shand then you do not listen to good soul. -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 15:08
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quote:What about Achtung Baby/Zooropa? Such a departure from their typical sound in the name of innovation could hardly be described as selling out. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 19:26
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quote:"Don't argue about tastes." (Russian saying.) Is there an equivalent saying in English? (The idea is that different people like different things so arguments like "is green a better color than blue" or "is modern rock better than 60s rock" are destined to go nowhere.) -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 20:51
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'There's no accounting for tastes' is the closest I can think of, and I believe it's Latin-derived. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 20:55
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I swear, I do not have the time for the musical elitism race. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Wednesday, July 12 2006 21:30
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quote:Ah, so this is your game! Catch me in a moment of levity and use it to discredit my arguments? I'll learn you, I will... For starters, I have listened to Shand's album before, and it was quite good, but not terribly original. And he doesn't constitute a majority of modern music. You seem to be intent on taking my statements to extremes. I never labeled all modern music as "formulaic corporate crap." I do have a liking for a handful of more modern artists and bands, and although I maintain that the modern indie scene is in no way groundbreaking, it does encompass some very tuneful, hummable music. See, there's the big problem with modern pop/rock: even if it's good (and it rarely is) it's usually at best just a retread of something that came before. In fact, very few of the genres you mentioned as having originated after '75 are really terribly original at all. Let's go down the list: The Punk Movement: Wasn't this, from the start, more about the aesthetic and the culture than anything else? All of that might have been original, but the music sure ain't. It's just old school rock sped up and played and sung in an energetic semi-incompetent fashion. New Wave: Like I said, there's a degree of originality here, although most of it lacks a point. Speed Metal: Well, this is clearly just a variation on an existing genre, metal; only real difference is a cutdown on soloing and (obviously) an increase in tempo. And metal was never terribly original in the first place, was it? Just rock turned lily-white, played with the amps turned all the way up, given shallow lyrics penned by screeching singers, and, worst of all, chock-full of grating, obnoxious guitar tones and massively overplayed drum kits. Marriage of Country and Pop: Well, it was innovative when it originated, but like I said, it sure as hell originated before 1975. Rap: Innovative, yes, but also mostly tuneless, shallow, and grating. Seattle Grunge Scene: Original? Don't make me laugh. I've heard many, many examples of proto-grunge in the work of sixties bands. Hell, "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" by the Beatles has a segment that is practically grunge, and Jethro Tull did a whole album (1970's Benefit) that is full of grungey moments. All the Seattle grunge bands did was take a form sparingly used by past artists and fill whole albums with it. The results, I'm afraid to say, are quite simply boring. World Music: Sure, sure. See what I mean? The vast majority of post-'75 genres you've brought up are hardly original at all. Certainly no genre is entirely original, but there are grades of originality, and the originality of a genre like psychedelic rock or progressive rock far surpasses that of, say, new wave. Now, on to your claim that my biases and opinions are clouding my judgement. What you ought to try to understand is the crucial difference between opinions and biases. All self-styled music critics must necessarily have educated opinions regarding the music they listen to. Note my use of the phrase, "educated opinion." An uneducated opinion is a damn fool opinion, of course. An opinion is most valid when it is supported by a wealth of knowledge on the subject, as my opinions are. You see, although I might consider myself an art/prog rock fan, I've never confined myself within those genres. I've listened to quite a bit of everything, and, I'll wager, quite a bit more than you have. As such, I never hesitate in being opinionated when evaluating music. However, I do attempt to keep my biases in check. For example, I have a bias against Bob Dylan because I find his voice unappealing. But I'll never underrate Dylan's influence on bands and artists that followed, some of which I find far more ear-pleasing (e.g. The Byrds, Fairport Convention). The reasons for why I dislike so much of modern music have very little to do with my biases and everything to do with my opinions. Such as my opinion that music ought to be tuneful and melodic to be good, for example. Or that, in choosing between an older, seminal work or a newer derivative one, I'll always choose the freshness of the original rather than the stale aroma of the new bastardization. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Thursday, July 13 2006 05:11
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quote:I agree. My comment wasn't on taste but rather was on the "quality of music having dropped off significantly since 1975" (paraphrased, but right in tone), which I disputed. I cited both major new artists and significant new work by established artists as evidence that quality music continues to be made and can easily be found. To which the reply is "its stale because its unoriginal". Well, other than Dylan electrifying folk all music is derivative. Modern country, soul, R&B continue to be tuneful and musical (among others) and continue to mine old material in new ways to remain fresh. quote:Not supported with any evidence, and what is there actually seems to imply the opposite. The fact that nothing new is found to be appealing suggests that you no longer "listen around". Not that this is a problem (hey mine the same old stuff and continue to enjoy it) except where you comment on modern music without exposure. -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Thursday, July 13 2006 07:53
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quote: -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Thursday, July 13 2006 10:05
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Just a few little comments, as I haven't much time: -I didn't ignore your comments about metal, I just didn't have enough time to deal with them. And there's the added problem that I don't really care all that much about the various genres of a supergenre that I generally despise... That said, I have heard some Dream Theatre before and it was quite good, if a bit too metallic for my tastes. -Clearly, my arguments are falling on deaf ears. I never said that I enjoy nothing that is new. On the contrary, there is a minority of modern music that is enjoyable. It just doesn't make much of an impression on me, as I've pretty much heard it all before, and rip-offs can't beat an original. -I don't "mine the same old stuff." I'm a relic hunter; I dig up forgotten curios and rarities and listen to them. Perhaps once I run out of these (if that ever happens), I'll tune in with more enthusiasm to the newer stuff. -I'm losing my enthusiasm for this argument. As such, I'll point you to a chap that has listened to even more music than have I, and yet voices a similar perspective: George Starostin . And for his specific views on this and other subjects, try this page -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5663
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written Thursday, July 13 2006 17:29
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In no particular order: "Wonderful Night" by Fatboy Slim "Weapon of Choice" by Fatboy Slim "Ocean Breathes Salty" by Modest Mouse "Fresh" by Daft Punk "High Fidelity" by Daft Punk "High Life" by Daft Punk "Be Lovin'" by D-Crew "5/4" by Gorillaz "Dare" by Gorillaz "Born Too Slow" by The Crystal Method "Jung-Hwa Ban Jum" by Chin2 [ Thursday, July 13, 2006 17:31: Message edited by: Mister Fox ] -------------------- I'm drunk as think as you not am I. Posts: 64 | Registered: Sunday, April 3 2005 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1814
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written Thursday, July 13 2006 20:38
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Apple of Sodom by Marilyn Manson The beautiful people by Marilyn Manson The devil's rejects by Rob Zombie Kinda I want to by Nine inch nails Dragula by rob zombie reptile by nine inch nails king nothing by mettaleica no leaf clover by metalica the memory remains by metallica. somewhat damaged by nine inch nails. -------------------- The great light bulb converses its thoughts in a fashion most particular to its complicated nature. Neither twenty-one nor forsaken any longer, I now stand in freedom through Jesus Christ. Posts: 215 | Registered: Friday, August 30 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5450
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written Thursday, July 13 2006 23:05
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quote:You have No Leaf Clover, but no Fade To Black? No Ride The Lightning? Weird. But Dragula (Rob Zombie) is good. EDIT: Great post before, Stug. :) [ Thursday, July 13, 2006 23:12: Message edited by: Spring ] -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. :ph34r: Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 16
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written Friday, July 14 2006 11:12
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quote:We New Zealots actually prefer outsiders to use the adjective "New Zealous." [ Friday, July 14, 2006 11:16: Message edited by: TurtleWhipper ] -------------------- You know, Scorp, there's a good reason you're not a moderator any more. Posts: 441 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Saturday, July 15 2006 08:45
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quote:The Clash's London Calling? Wire's Pink Flag? Gang of Four's Entertainment!? Minutemen's Double Nickle on the Dime? I could go on and on, before I even turned my attention to the post punk explosion (which I consider the most fertile period that rock has ever experienced) and new wave. While the Sex Pistols and their ilk may not have been pushing the boundaries incredibly, what followed certainly did. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |