You can drown plowing the fields or you can drown seeing the sights
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| Author | Topic: You can drown plowing the fields or you can drown seeing the sights |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Friday, December 31 2004 15:39
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quote:If you are skilled with language, "making people feel bad" is actually of benefit. Who would give a thought about the hundred thousand dead if it were not for the touching accounts of eyewitnesses? You cannot really empathize unless you can imagine the tragedy - and you cannot imagine a number. Likewise, the busty blonde chick is reacted to by the barkeeper because it's one person. The Stalin quote is quite apt here: You cannot sympathize with a number. Even if you do sympathize, you do it by imagining individual persons in that crowd and sympathizing with their personal fates. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3988
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written Friday, December 31 2004 15:44
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With the exchange rate donating even a little makes a big difference, you could give only $5 and over there it would be worth about $150. Posts: 6 | Registered: Sunday, February 15 2004 08:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Sunday, January 2 2005 08:14
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Maybe this makes me a bad person, I don't know, but I am still more concerned with the on-going crisis in the Darfur region. There are fewer casualties than in Asia so far, yes, but we can assume that another such disaster will not strike for a while. This is not the case in Sudan, where the disaster will continue for a while yet if nothing is done by the international community. If it does go on, the death toll could very well exceed that of the recent natural disaster. Send your money to Asia, but please don't forget Africa. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Sunday, January 2 2005 11:30
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I think the realisation that it will not happen again for a while is of little comfort to those in Asia who have lost everything. Broadly, I agree, but it's better that people give their money to Asia and ignore Africa than it is for people to ignore both. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Sunday, January 2 2005 14:14
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I agree that it's easier to empathise with an individual than it is with 100000 people, but that's not relevant. You don't need to empathise, you don't need to feel their pain. Even without that, you should know very well what the appropriate response is. Thinking of it as a collection of individual tragedies is only useful for bringing the bigger picture to light. The only people who need to consider it on a person to person basis are those on the ground. Sure, people may argue that it's very hard to picture 100000 dead. There's a reason for that. It's because it's a horrifically large number of fatalities. That's all you need to know. How many dead tourists won't affect how it's remembered in three years. It affects how much overly focused, slightly neo-colonialist TV reports there are on the news. Jesus might give everything away, but that's because he effectively lived hand to mouth. Not only is it much easier to give away what's been given to you, but if you actually have a large amount it's not necessarily best to give it all away in one go. Don't kill the chicken, just take the eggs. I don't agree at all with David. Yes, both need attention, but the situation in Darfur is stabilising whereas the infrastructure in the tsunami hit areas is nearly destroyed and disease is a major worry. We can't just focus on this for three weeks then leave with the situation little better and much of the aid only pledged, which means it has a worse than 50% chance of getting there. Besides, if we don't pay attention the Indonesians could very well go back to their old tricks and go burning villages on Atjeh. Mind you, that's beside the point. These things don't need to be quantified. There are 1 billion people on earth without access to clean water. That figure could and should be zero. There's no reason why we can't help everywhere at a much increased rate. We won't, because increased international aid is a vote loser, we have this bad habit of requiring price matching or liberalising your industries and too many areas are horrifically corrupt, but there's no reason why we couldn't. -------------------- Voice of Reasonable Morality Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Sunday, January 2 2005 17:28
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quote:Agreed. The thing about this is that one can help in both situations - send your money to Asia and send letters to your government leaders. BtI, you have a good point about Indonesia, and if I had to choose right now between helping Asia and helping Sudan I would probably help Asia, at least short term. Medical aid, food, fresh water, and shelter all must be provided as soon as possible to avoid losing as many as were killed initially. But the Darfur refugees have many of the same problems with the addition of human enemies actively attempting to exterminate them, and whereas civilian aid and monetary support could do wonders in Asia, military action and diplomacy would be more helpful in Darfur. We can and must do both. I emphasize the Sudan crisis only because the international community would rather look the other way and mumble vague entreaties to stop the massacre than roll up their sleeves and bring the warfare to an abrupt halt. We constantly hear about the tsunami and what we are doing or will do to help, so why the double standard? It's easier to shed tears and send money than to make ultimatums and send soldiers, I suppose, but that's no excuse. Increased international aid is a vote loser, sure, but the current lack of aid is a life loser. The politicians and the public have opted for the latter. How revealing. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Tuesday, January 4 2005 11:48
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I read a disturbing report this morning about the actual likelihood of the governments giving all the aid they have promised. Apparently, of the 1.1 billion dollars promised after the Iranian earthquake in Bam recently, only 17.6 million was ever delivered on. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3605
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written Tuesday, January 4 2005 12:23
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Edit: Couldnt be bothered to try and defend the governments. They can do that for themselves. Or maybe, as you say, they cant. [ Tuesday, January 04, 2005 13:12: Message edited by: Angry Ogre ] -------------------- "Fair and unbiased" Posts: 358 | Registered: Monday, October 27 2003 08:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Tuesday, January 4 2005 13:03
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Nice theory. Problem is that even if the charity has the free resources to make a fuss, it won't be clear the money isn't coming until well after the disaster, when it's less of a news item. Besides, the best they could hope for would be bringing down a junior government minister. And a lot of the aid would have gone to Iran since it was the Iranian infrastructure that needed to be rebuilt. Thing is that it comes with codicils such as price matching, where you only get an equal amount of cash to the amount you pledge. Iran may not have the money to spend and even if it does may be unwilling to do so. Then there's politics. When Iran's being castigated for preventing reformists standing or for it's nuclear ambitions or for being a convenient whipping boy or whatever, not delivering on aid becomes easier. I've heard Morgan's information from several sources. It's true, it's a scandal and it's the sort of thing that really needs to be stamped on. Aid to the Third World needs less potentially harmful codicils and more reliability. Similarly, huge numbers of countries don't pay their dues to go towards the running of the UN. -------------------- Voice of Reasonable Morality Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5219
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written Tuesday, January 4 2005 16:04
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quote:There's firsts for everything. =\ -------------------- You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:08
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quote:This disaster could potentially result in a pandemic pestilence, I fear. Claiming to empathize the victims of this tsunami is hypocrisy; We do not know those people. If we were even capable of empathizing every suffering being, then we would all commit suicide at the age we realize how much suffering there is in this world, let alone in this universe. quote:To few people realize that the international prosperity and productivity is, indirectly, beneficial to us in the long run. Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 10:04
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I object to idea that just because you don't know someone you can therefore not empathise with them. Suffering is suffering, regardless of your geographical view point. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 11:22
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Empathy is not a rational thought but an emotion however, and it is near impossible empathize without visualizing - either by seeing or by imagining it. The latter applies more often than might be thought. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1993
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 11:48
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The consequences of the tsunami are still completely unsettled in Myanmar, where a brutal military dictatorship suppresses the people, far more badly than Saddam Hussein to his worst times (which does not cause a US government to any activity ...). There the destruction through the giant wave is probably comparable to those at the coast of Thailand, but no information is present. The government's announces (56 deads, no serious damages) are not reliable. Myanmar is known for its rigide information politics, censorship prevails for decades. The roads to the coastal region are blocked by the military. Since yesterday warships are patroling around the coast - not to bring assistance, but to keep away the foreign auxiliary troops. If the government would allow foreign organizations to enter the country, the extent of the civil war in Myanmar became obvious. ;_; -------------------- ^ö^ vegetarians are sexy. Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 12:44
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quote:Over 100,000 lives have been lost due to the tsunami. Do you care 100,000 times more about them than you would about one death in your immediate family? No? How about 1000 times as much? 10 times as much? Twice as much? -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Thursday, January 6 2005 06:37
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I care enough to realize the world has become interconnected enough where a disaster on this scale can affect our economy and health if we do not help. 500,000 injured people, huge numbers of sick and malnourished people, 130,000 dead bodies, stagnant water, and massive starvation could have a tremendous impact if we do not help. This is the setting for plague or superflu on a massive scale if there is not enough intervention. The World Health Organization has talked about this. At the minimum, water needs purification, proper medical quarantine and medical help need to occur, serious martial law, and getting people fed. Also it damages the economies of India, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, and Australia. If not checked, it could lead to worldwide economic depression. This would be an absolute mess. There really is no choice but to help. It is in our self interest. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Friday, January 7 2005 09:02
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Thuryl - my mother was recently diagnosed with cancer. For her at least, and saying this in the least ghoulish way possible, she says the tsunami has helped her put things in perspective - that she has lived a reasonably long, affluent life in a first world country, while countless thousands have died without living much of a life at all, though I realise this isn't quite the point you were addressing. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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