Re: Avernites role in Empire vs Vahnatai
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Apprentice
Member # 5238
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written Saturday, November 27 2004 16:40
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Originally posted by: Kreshweed Suppose Kelandon is right and A4 is about a war between the Empire and the Vahnatai. What role would the avernites play in that conflict? It seems likely that Avernum (and Upper Avernum) immidiately would be conquered by the Vahnatai. With Erika dead Avernum wouldn't stand a chance. When the Avernites are destroyed, 1-4 would escape......you. -------------------- Those friendly spiders & roaches are driving me INSANE. WB0! Posts: 27 | Registered: Saturday, November 27 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Saturday, November 27 2004 16:45
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And you fight for the Empire? Sounds good. I always wanted to fight for the Empire. I'm evil that way. Someone tried making a scenario once where you played the Empire side of E2, but that didn't go over well. Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Saturday, November 27 2004 21:53
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Akhronath wrote Justice, wherein you can (but don't have to) fight for the Empire. But honestly- How do you justify the Empire being evil, and the Vahnatai being good? (Just a forewarning- there was a lengthy discussion about thhis in the past.) -------------------- 私のバラドですそしてころしたいいらればころす Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 06:02
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I remember Justice, but only vaguely. I tracked down a copy of BoE; I'll put that on my "things to play" list. Anyway, I never once really though the Vahnatai were good--merely pissed-off and looking for revenge. Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5219
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 07:09
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As I said before, the empire technically has the advantage in numbers, and mainly because the vahnatai can't go to the surface. If the avernites helped the empire, the vahnatai would be slaughtered. If the avernites helped the vahnatai, the same thing would happen as a2. Therefore, I would say, A4 would be about the humans vs the vahnatai! :) -------------------- You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2627
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 08:13
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quote:So by "humans" I presume you mean Empire+Avernites? -------------------- formally Brenitt-Ihrno I'm a very irregular poster, don't mind me. Join me, people NFC FOREVER!!! Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3610
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 10:52
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I think you're assuming an awful lot in that argument. For instance, why can't the Empire build an augumented teleporter right off? In #2 we were told numerous times that, while killing Garzahd helped, if the augumented teleporter was ever completed, the Avernites/Exiles would be slaughtered to the man and woman. On the other hand, a mere three cities of Vahanatai helped turn the tables between #2 and #3 (cf. the introductory sequence to #3). Yet we are told that there is another whole tribe of Vahanatai who have never seen the humans (vz. the Vahanatai in Valley of Dying Things), and we know that the single tribe which helped turn the tide is barely half Opened. After all, the PC's in #2 Open one Resting Cell and clear another to be Opened, and in your journey, if you look around in the Vahanatai Lands, you can find at least 5 other Resting Cells waiting to be opened. There are 5 Vahanatai cities that are inhabited (including Fort Haledon, but excluding the bandit fort and Eglit). Of those, Avit is a small town, Fort Haledon is a small outpost, and Mancuso is barely half inhabited. Indeed the Mayor of Mancuso tells you that until all of the Resting Cells are Opened, Mancuso will have a hard time defending itself. Additionally, Eglit has but a single inhabitant (the hermit who teaches the PC's Vahanatai Lore). Further, I would suspect that that there are other ruined cities you know nothing about. Lastly, the Vahanatai manage to hold Kordaddis and hist infernal legions at bay, despite the fact that they are barely awoken. Looking at #3, we see many more Vahanatai in as much as you need to kill huge numbers of them to get to the keep of Rentar-Ihrno. In the final guantlet of #3, you pass through a number of large fortifications (2 in A3 and 3 in E3). The Great Walls are larger than any other fortification of the Vahanatai that we have yet seen, and the New Factory (A3) or the Keep of Rentar-Ihrno (E3) is much larger than any other settlement to date. That is, of course, ignoring the fact that they have also occupied the the Ghirka, and the area under Keep Tinyara, and, almost certainly, the known Vahanatai lands. That's a lot of people, and that's only one tribe. I'm sure that if the Empire attacked any tribe, without prior diplomatic contacts with other tribes, then many of the Vahanatai tribes would attack. This is doubly certain if the other tribes knew of the theft of the Crystal Souls, which they would certainly be told about. So, in that case, I think all would not go well for the Empire is they attacked the Vahanatai. Incidentally, what makes you think the Vahanatai could not survive on the surface? They certainly perfer the caves, but the sunlight killed Erica, not Rentar-Ihrno. Similar to the way that the Avernites survived in the caves but perfered the surface, I bet the Vahanatai could survive on the surface though they perfer subterrainious climes. Incidentally, why would not the Vahanatai ally themselves with the Dragons? The Dragons, especially Sulfuras are planning a great revenge against the Empire as well. Dragons + Vahanatai == Empire in serious trouble. Quite frankly, I can see a sort of World War III type scenario. If either side unleashes their "great weapons" I would be willing to bet that they have enough magical power to destroy the world. Will you play a sort of "special forces" group from the Humans attemting to sabotage the Draco-Vahanatai "ultra-magics" for the preservation of the world? Perhaps you will be a front line soldier in the war who fights against both sides for the good of the people (think the Communist resistance in World War II). Or maybe it will be nothing like that at all, and Jeff will suprise us once again... Posts: 129 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2627
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 11:05
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quote:I think that is most likely. -------------------- formally Brenitt-Ihrno I'm a very irregular poster, don't mind me. Join me, people NFC FOREVER!!! Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5219
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 11:09
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quote:You'd be correct. :) I mean, theres really no point in recreating the avernum 2 war, is there? It would be a nice change to see the entirety of humans vs the vahnatai, and experience the outcome. Or maybe, in the end you can choose whether to help the vahnatai or empire. That would be cool. -------------------- You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 12:22
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Maybe it might be the return of the advanced Nephilim. They open a gate and move a large army through seeking reparations for their fallen brethren. Who knows. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 12:56
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quote:fyt -------------------- 私のバラドですそしてころしたいいらればころす Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2627
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 14:02
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quote:Or maybe, in the end you can choose whether to help the vahnatai or empire. That would be cool.[/b][/quote]That is a good idea, yes. I think having Vahnatai PC's would be cool though. -------------------- formally Brenitt-Ihrno I'm a very irregular poster, don't mind me. Join me, people NFC FOREVER!!! Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5219
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written Sunday, November 28 2004 18:15
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I hear ya. In fact, I think that the only reason Jeff limited the character types to 3 is because all the dialogue would take too long if there were a whole bunch of different creature to choose from. I mean, there were evil nephilim and sliths during the game, as well as humans. He probably could have added a vahnatai towards boa, which would've rocked. Adding on to the vahnatai pc thing, it'd be cool to have the vahnatai start out with capture soul/simacrulum and have vahnatai lore. Extra bonuses like that. -------------------- You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00 |