Avernum 4 or Nethergate 2
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, July 19 2004 04:13
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quote:That is actually why I'd like Avernum 4. I guess I'm a die-hard optimist concerning Jeff's views on plot and backstory... I've been here only just over a year, so I haven't had much opportunity to be disappointed. On the unlikely chance that Jeff reads this (and the chance it makes more of a difference than the dozens of times I'm sure people have said this): ______________________ Here's a little reasoning which I hope isn't too wide of the mark (never having had experience with game designing myself): - 8-year-olds who have no interest in plot quality or background will probably prefer their games with flashy graphics and realistic special effects. - A game should (ideally, of course) have a balance between graphic quality and plot, which add up to make it a fun experience. Nevertheless, to an extent one of the factors can make up for lack of the other. - Of the two factors, graphics take a lot more resources than the relatively small amount of time, thought and creativity that needs to go into plot development to make an interesting game. - Real-time, 3d, high quality graphics are too expensive in production to pay off for a small company. The production of games with such graphics is pretty much reserved to large companies. - Conversely, Spiderweb has the advantage of compactness. Where a hundred of people may have to coordinate their progress in developing a game, such exchange is more efficient in a small company. Plot ideas, story and such will be easier to coordinate and plan. --> Following this, why shouldn't Spiderweb concentrate on its strengths? And that's all of my two cents. :) -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Monday, July 19 2004 04:49
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An A4 that carried on immediately from the E3/A3 storyline would be a travesty of nature. A far distant future, or prequel could work. Only just. An N2 however would be the most versatile, having good sequel potential, and prequel potential for that matter. As for a crossover, that would be even worse than a directly derived A4. -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4423
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written Monday, July 19 2004 05:57
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I suppose if A4 was a prequel rather then sequel, I might give it a chance to live on my computer... and I hadn't thought of the slim chance of a vahnatai storyline, which would be cool. If it's a Vahnatai game, then it's more of a game set in the Avernum universe then a sequel, and shouldn't be called A4... Any attempt at a direct sequel for A3 just wouldn't be that good. A N2 would be much more possible. -------------------- "When your teacher needs a calculator to add up how many you missed more than you need a calculator to take a calc test, that's bad." Posts: 44 | Registered: Tuesday, May 25 2004 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4623
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written Monday, July 19 2004 09:17
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IT SI A SEUGUEL TO EXILE 1 JEFF JUSTR TOLD ME ON AIM LOL -------------------- The Great Mister kommari@gmail.com[/url] Posts: 417 | Registered: Sunday, June 27 2004 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Monday, July 19 2004 09:35
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I'd much rather have some official geography, really, Aran. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4592
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written Monday, July 19 2004 10:12
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TGM, jesting? Sequel to Exile 1 as in. . . intermediate action between E1 and E2? Venatoi, sorry, Vahanatee, sorry, Vahnatai related? Maybe? Hmmm. (Ah! Maybe he will go back to an engine like Exile.) Hmmm. (And maybe Fill In Generic Hollywood Star Name Female Preferable Please will reply to my many, many, many, many, attempts to ask her out. I mean, come on. Look what she's missing.) Hmmm. Edit: Missed a "to" in between "back" and "an". [ Monday, July 19, 2004 10:13: Message edited by: Blind Samurai Penguin Clown ] -------------------- quote:Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga) Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4623
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written Monday, July 19 2004 10:15
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No, I was not speaking in jest. It's 100 percent true, honestly. -------------------- The Great Mister kommari@gmail.com[/url] Posts: 417 | Registered: Sunday, June 27 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4592
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written Monday, July 19 2004 10:22
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Oh Christ on Skates!!! Well then that is that, right? Hmmm. Now we'll see the hypothesis on what that sequel to Exile 1 (he was rather specific, which is kind of neat in a way, I mean now that we know we are doomed we might as well try to see what good can come out of all this, right?)is. Sigh. Hmmm. Okey dokey. -------------------- quote:Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga) Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, July 19 2004 10:50
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A sequel to Exile 1??! :confused: Does he mean a remake of E2? Or something in between the two? Or is it Exile 4, which would be a sequel to Exile 3, and thus indirectly a sequel to E1 as well? Imban, when I said 'plot', I actually meant 'background information' (the first cannot be good without the second). And when I meant 'background information', I mentally included 'Geography'. [ Monday, July 19, 2004 22:55: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 19 2004 12:34
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I know I'll buy A4, just because I am the mindless zombie that SW thrives on. It is interesting to see who is vehemently opposed to this and who is not. If he stupidly villifies any particular race (vahnatai, sliths, nephils) again like A3, I will think seriously about switching over to a Pyg-only existence, though. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, July 19 2004 12:48
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Ha. I think I will, and then I realize I'm an addict. Until skribbane hits Pyg, you know where to find me. —Alorael, who thinks a Nethergate sequel actually has all the hallmarks of a game that would screw up its prequel. Nethergate has a good, solid end that is, above all, final. N2 would either have to have no magic or it would have to undo N1, and that would be a shame. More "historical" fantasy would be good. More Nethergate probably wouldn't be unless the magic dropped out of the equation. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 19 2004 14:34
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It occurs to me that he may just be screwing with us. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4423
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written Monday, July 19 2004 15:05
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:eek: -------------------- "When your teacher needs a calculator to add up how many you missed more than you need a calculator to take a calc test, that's bad." Posts: 44 | Registered: Tuesday, May 25 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
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written Monday, July 19 2004 15:28
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It seems to have become increasingly evident that Avernum 4 is not what is planned. -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4592
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written Monday, July 19 2004 18:54
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Alorael. I think a N2 sequel may work. If the continuity is followed and it takes place in the world beyond the gate, wherever that place is where all the beings were heading to. A band of Roman Soldiers also made it through. The Roman side can focus on surviving in that world, which should be rather tough, and play against the different factions that will exist on it. That might, maybe, work. Though I'm not even convincing myself too much here. Anyway. It's all a moot point. I'll buy whatever he puts out. I may whine and complain occassionally, but I love his games too darned much. Question! So far it has been mentioned a couple of times an intriguing thingy: PYGMALION. Did a search and got nothing but GBS, and though I love his play and am a big fan of My Fair Lady, needless to say that doesn't sound like what you guys are talking about. Where may I see the wondrous Pygmalion game?????? Salud! [ Monday, July 19, 2004 18:55: Message edited by: Blind Samurai Penguin Clown ] -------------------- quote:Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga) Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 19 2004 19:04
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Pyg is Djur's baby. Um, some discussion and links are here, and there is more description over in the Pygchat log and elsewhere at Desperance. It hasn't been released yet, but Djur said recently that a month from now would be a pretty good bet for the release date. Basically, it looks like BoE, but it has even more powerful scripting than BoA. And it's open source. And it's made by Djur, who intends to support it thoroughly and be a part of the community of designers for it. For more details, you would have to ask someone who knows more about it than me. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 05:21
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Ah. It's good to see that the Spiderweb Community is still as crazy as ever. So, Nethergate 2? How would that work. Personally, if Jeff could do it well (and I have every faith in him), Nethergate 2 would be SW's greatest game. Avernum 4 couldn't possibly happen, could it? Jeff finished the series off nicely. Surely the only way forward is with a prequel. But, again, that wouldn't fit with the wording of Jeff's announcement. Anyway, I voted N2, cos it sounds way better than t'other one. -------------------- "I am a living sign..." Thus endeth this post. Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2238
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 06:13
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A prequel to Avernum would be fine with me. Just not a sequel. And like you said, NG2 has the possibilities to be a great game. But we'll just see, now won't we? -------------------- The critics agree! Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly! "I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin! Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 07:40
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Indeed. Until then, I'm content to fiddle around with Blades of Avernum. -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4278
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 12:47
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I'm not swayed by your "It HAS to be Avernum 4" arguments. I'm going to say that either way its going to be an entirely new kind of game, whether it takes anything plot-wise from Nethergate or not, It will probably be a completely new gaming experience, as much as Geneforge was from Avernum. Or maybe I'm just being an optimist. Yeah, that could be it. -------------------- Pathological Jerk Jerking at Spiderweb since 1999 Posts: 143 | Registered: Sunday, April 18 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 18:22
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It'd be pretty sad if you were swayed-- read the link in Kelandon's "He may just be screwing with us" post. He's regarding Avernum 4 as a joke, so a real A4 is unlikely. -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, July 21 2004 21:29
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As this is the current speculation thread, here are some really odd things I've found: A review of GF2 Specifically: "Geneforge 2 is the last game that will use the engine that first appeared in Spiderweb's Nethergate. I personally can't wait to see what's next from Jeff Vogel and Spiderweb's new engine." Wtf? GF2's engine was the Geneforge engine, which was graphically similar to Nethergate's, but was real-time, not turn-based. And I thought GF3 would have GF2's engine. So maybe this sparkly new engine that he described in the Wrap is the GF3 engine. Or maybe the person who wrote that review is just an uninformed fool. Or... dear god. Maybe the GF3 engine and the A4 engine will be... the SAME ENGINE! FIGHT GENEFORGIZATION! Speaking of the Wrap, this particular paragraph has caused a LOT of speculation: "Second, we decided to use the Avernum engine. Realistically, economically, going with the old engine really worked for us. It shaved months off the development time. But it's an old engine, and clunky in a lot of small ways. This is its last game. Should we make an Avernum 4 (which is likely), the engine will be sparkly and new." But then... as in the above post, he may just be screwing with us. Damned if I know what any of this means. And how odd: JV evidently originally wanted to make Geneforge scenario-based, like BoE. This may be why he gave us Geneforge's scripts for BoA, even though the Avernum Trilogy didn't use them. And yet more evidence for the possibility of A4: "Geneforge 3 seems very likely. I like writing Geneforge games, and people like playing them (or, at least, ordering them). Beyond that, however, I have absolutely no idea. I haven't given up on the idea of going back on my sworn word and writing Avernum 4. A lot of people would really like that." And that's all I can find. No more relevant interviews, nothing. He has said very little on the matter, other than the suggestion that he will make a new and better engine for a game soon, that he will make GF3, and that he might make A4. I guess we'll all find out in good time.... EDIT: Why I felt the need to summarize our evidence into one post, I have no idea. [ Wednesday, July 21, 2004 21:30: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Thursday, July 22 2004 11:16
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quote:Well, it was very helpful for those of us who aren't as much in the loop as the rest of you. For one thing, this was the first time I'd found links to the "Wrap" — everybody was talking about it, but I had no idea what they were referring to. I really enjoyed reading that, thanks for actually *linking* to it! -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4766
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written Friday, July 23 2004 10:50
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If there was a Avernum 4 made it wouldnt be the Avernum TRILOGY . Plus I never really liked Nethergate. I think a totaly new game with new plots and everything would be fun though. Posts: 1 | Registered: Friday, July 23 2004 07:00 |
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