A Riddle...
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 11:17
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Today in school my friend told me this riddle that I couldn't figure out. Before he had time to tell me the answer, the bell rang and I had to leave. This is one of those things that I won't be able to stop thinking about unless I figure it out, so please try to help me out here. Ok here it is. A man is walking through hell(dont ask me how he got there). He keeps walking and stumbles upon two wyrms. He asks them how to get out of hell and they tell him that one of the wyrms only tells the truth and the other wyrm only tells lies. The man has to figure out which one is which, so he gets to ask them one, and only one question. What can the man ask them to figure out which is the liar and which one tells the truth? -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 11:30
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This is a classic, and the solution is rather simple. Ask one of the wyrms: "If I were to ask you, is this the way out of hell, (point in direction) what would you say?" The truth teller would naturally give the correct answer. The liar, if the way really were the correct one, would say "no" to the direct question but would have to lie and say that he would say "yes." A similar argument shows he would say "no" if it were the wrong way. So you are guaranteed a true answer. This assumes that there are only two paths, and one is right and one is wrong. If there are more than two, I'm not sure if or how it could be done. -------------------- who? Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 2775
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 11:31
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This type of question usually appears in a context where there are two possible escape routes and you can ask one question to learn which route to take. So you ask either of the two "If you were the other Wyrm (or guard or whatever) which route would you say leads to freedom?" In this form, the question forces an answer describing the opposite of what you want no matter which individual you ask, so you take the other route. You never find out who the liar was. -------------------- "I can't give you brains," said the Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow, "but I can give you a diploma." - L. Frank Baum Posts: 381 | Registered: Sunday, March 16 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 11:36
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Actually, if you ask 'which way would the other wyrm say I should go to get out of hell' you will be guaranteed a lie. You need to ask something like 'which way would the other wyrm not say if I asked it the way out of hell?' -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 12:45
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Yes, you always get a lie, so you just do the opposite. Which wyrm tells you that one of them always lies? :P If you ask "Would the guard on the left say to go this way?", then the left guard will give the right answer, and if both answers are the same, the left guard is the liar. There is even a question you could ask if you are worried that you might get yes and no muddled up, but I'll not tell that one. [ Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:57: Message edited by: Khoth ] -------------------- Grammar wenches beware: This is the house that the malt that the rat that the cat that the dog that the cow that the maiden that the man that the priest that the cock that the farmer kept waked married kissed milked tossed worried killed ate lay in. My Website desperance.net - Leave your sanity at the door Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 12:58
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I just talked to him again and he said that you say "what would your brother say if I asked you this" (which way out of hell, etc.) because this makes the liar have to tell the truth or confuses them or something like that... -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 13:55
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The truthful wyrm tells you the right direction to go if asked. Therefore, if you ask the liar "If you were the other wyrm, which way would you tell me to go?" it would tell you the same direction, except it's a liar. So it tells you the wrong way. The lying wyrm would tell the wrong way if asked directly, so the truthful wyrm will tell you the wrong way if asked which way the liar would direct you. Thus, no matter which wyrm you ask, you get the direction you don't want to take. Wherever they direct you, you go the other way. —Alorael, who loves riddles with liars and truth-tellers. They can get ridiculously complicated, but you can always reduce them to a series of possibilities and work through it. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3452
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 14:26
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:D A simple way is to ask both of them are they wyrms? :D :D The truth teller would say yes and the liar would say no :D :D The trick is to ask a question you know the answer to so it wouldn't be so complicated :D -------------------- Look!!! I have a signature!!! Drakefyre is the coolest!!! Posts: 75 | Registered: Wednesday, September 10 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 14:28
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Yeah but then you would use up your only question. You wouldn't get anything out of asking that. -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 14:28
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Yeah but then you would use up your only question. You wouldn't get anything out of asking that. -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3452
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 14:29
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:D yeah but wasnt the question What can the man ask them to figure out which is the liar and which one tells the truth? and not how to get out :D -------------------- Look!!! I have a signature!!! Drakefyre is the coolest!!! Posts: 75 | Registered: Wednesday, September 10 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 15:28
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I don't see why all this discussion is necessary. Didn't I post a completely valid and simple solution ages ago? :D -------------------- who? Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3452
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 15:31
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:D yes but if only the first person that posts the right answer can answer then these forums would be extremely short :D it wouldnt really be a forum but an q&a thing ;) we need discussion and family time :P -------------------- Look!!! I have a signature!!! Drakefyre is the coolest!!! Posts: 75 | Registered: Wednesday, September 10 2003 07:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 3149
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written Thursday, January 15 2004 17:31
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d00d labyrinth was totally awesome!!! Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Friday, January 16 2004 06:31
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Oh yea, that riddle was in that movie, wasn't it? What did the girl say? -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Friday, January 16 2004 07:11
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If it was, and I remember it correct... didn't she get it wrong? As in, she went the wrong way? Very vague memories... O_o -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 2775
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written Friday, January 16 2004 07:12
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Before you reach the exit, you have to deal with the chicanery. -------------------- "I can't give you brains," said the Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow, "but I can give you a diploma." - L. Frank Baum Posts: 381 | Registered: Sunday, March 16 2003 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Friday, January 16 2004 08:52
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Fans of this kind of puzzle should read 'To Mock a Mockingbird' by Raymond Smullyan. It features tons of them. Including creatures that lie on certain days of the week, and you get to figure out which day it would be. A classic one is the man who, on april 1st, tells his nephew that he's going to fool him. And then does nothing all day. Since the nephew expected to be fooled, and didn't get fooled - it follows that he was fooled! How's that for a paradox? -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Friday, January 16 2004 11:18
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That's why you should always expect the unexpected. -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3872
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written Saturday, January 17 2004 10:10
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Now, now, this riddle was on Samuri Jack and Yu-Gi-Oh. The answer is that they are both lieing. Just for them to make statement together they would have to lie. "One of us tells only the truth..." That would have to be a lie. "And the other tells nothing but lies." While this one is the truth. The statement contradicts itself. Its that simple, think about it. Posts: 2 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Saturday, January 17 2004 12:23
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Coming from such a respected source as Yu-Gi-Oh, your answer must be superior to the bored musings of amateur philosophers and designers of bad choose-your-own adventure books. Is there a particular reason why it's impossible to lie? Assuming you don't count an innocent mistake as a lie, one could avoid lying. Just because must people choose to, doesn't mean that it is a prerequisite of life. Please vacate the intellectual highhorse. Try the intellectual high chair instead. -------------------- Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned I'll tell you my story, man Though I wish I'd never been born I'm loose at the seams, I've broken my dreams And my hand it shakes the pen Come on, come on now baby, Let the good times roll again Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2494
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written Saturday, January 17 2004 16:30
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Yeah, I remember this riddle from Samurai Jack lol. It's already been answered like 50 times in this thread so why shouldn't I tell my answer? lol Lets suppose the man is trying to leave hell. He asks one wyrm, "If you were the other wyrm, what would you tell me the way out is?" No matter what, the answer of the way out is a lie. Lets say that the way out was left.... if that question was asked to the lying wyrm, he would say "The way out is right" because the truthfull wyrm would tell the truth, but he can only lie. And if it was asked to the truthful wyrm, the wyrm would tell the truth about what the other would say which would be a lie. Done and done, Yapiro Man [ Saturday, January 17, 2004 16:41: Message edited by: Yapiro Man ] -------------------- In a world of darkness, light is everywhere. You just have to look. Posts: 130 | Registered: Thursday, January 16 2003 08:00 |