My opinion about SW games...
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Apprentice
Member # 3886
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 04:52
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I would like to give my opinion about SW games... I don't see any other place to write a short review. I played two Exile games on a Mac long time ago and I had a lot of fun. There is no a lot of games on Mac, and RPG games are very few... and it was nice to have a shareware game small enough to download with a 56k modem. So it was welcome! Since, I have a PC and many game, but I came back regulary to the SW site to see latest games. I've tried a few last demos (Avernum), and I just had a look to Blade of Avernum preview, the latest game. Blades of Exile was not as good as other famous RPG like Ultima serie in my opinion (I would not compare Exile with big commercial production, it has no sense) but it has some originality and a nice gamepley. However, I am very disapointed to see that the new games released these last years, including the upcoming Blade of Avernum, are excatly the same as the previous games... I know, many players will answer the story changed, scenario changed, etc. But the feeling is: the game is the same, only the story changed and continue, it is no more then an add-on. Graphics (I regret to say this) are poor: faces and large pictures are ugly, figurines are very primitive and could be better (with the same number of colours and the same resolution, a old game like Ultima 8 does better). The interface of the game did not change: same icons, same buttons, same windows. A little bit different, may be, but it is not an improvement. About the story, it's easy to guess that it won't be very different: Blades of Avernum is, again, a story made with plague, rebellion, underground world, cave, mushrooms, the same strange races, and almost the same graphic (I just looked at the Blades of Avernum screenshot, and it's enough to understand). Well, I do not like to critize other people's work, because I do know that SW team made has to make a lot of efforts to release each game, but I cannot understand that a developper produce always the same thing... If SW could change a few things: nicer large graphics, better animated PC (figurines), a new interface and (please!) another graphical atmosphere with totaly new ambiance, it would be great... next, if the story context is almost the same, I consider it is less important. But also important. My feeling is that SW is really in need of graphic designers and programmers. Otherwise SW will never be able to renew his games. I wish good luck to SW and, because I am an old fan, I will come back regullary to see new games released... hoping to see something really new! Kolokol Posts: 7 | Registered: Tuesday, January 13 2004 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 05:02
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Did you register BoE? The default scenarios are not as entertaining as the hundreds of others out there by any means; most people would say it's their favorite SW title. Also, I'm thoroughly agreed with you; Avernum was the wrong path to take. I don't feel that the graphics or the engine they used were good enough to justify remaking the game, adding only a few new things, and then selling it as a new product. I, personally, would have paid better to see more of something like Nethergate -- graphics not too great (Exile has never been strong on that), but an original plot and gameplay not harmed by comparison to a game which should be the same thing. -------------------- In a word, gay. --Bob the Impaler Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 05:04
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The real point to Blades of Exile is all the third-party scenarios, many of which have better plots than the included scenarios and a few of which even have better graphics. The same will be true of Blades of Avernum. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3886
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 07:37
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Third-party scenario are, of course, one of the most interesting feature of Blades of Exile and its later clones. I had begun a scenario myself that I never finished, but never mind, I was very excited to make my own story, with my own graphics... But the game engine has a few weakness and lacunas that limit the gameplay seriously. With Blade of Exile (registered), it was not possible to add many customs graphics for the floor, the landscapes, etc. Not enough anyway, and I had to replace original graphics by custom ones... it was a real restriction. I think this limitation still exists in later games, because the graphics for the floor, the ground and the walls, are almost the same, not diverse at all. Although you can create many new characters and monsters, decor and scenery are too monotonous. From the Blade of Avernum screenshot, I guess nothing changed on this point. Next, other part of the game engine are limiting any original creation. The dialog box are to simple, and there is no way to create short animations-movies like in Japanese-like rpg games (for example: a character arrives in the room, speak to you, that you see him leaving the place...). Such stagecraft are not possible. In the opposite, I found the fighting system of Blade of Exile was not bad. It is a little bit tactical and I appreciate this. But the summoning spells were exagerated, I think. Each fight came down to a summoning party, and each summoned creature arrives with an awfull high-pitched noise... BoE magic is synonymous with summoning. I am sure "Blade of Avernum" won't change this. Posts: 7 | Registered: Tuesday, January 13 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 07:46
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Summoning really isn't the way you should play BoE... Yes, there are limitations with BoE. Yes the graphics are dated. But the sheer quality of some of the scenarios out there (Falling Stars, At the Gallows, Shadow of a Stranger, Quintessence to name a few) more then makes up for this. If you're in it for graphics, you've come to the wrong place. Spiderweb has only one programmer and 2 other employees. It is not a high budget place. -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 08:58
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As I've pointed out to several Spidweb-sceptics, the difference between playing a BoE scenario and a game like, say, Dungeon Siege is the same as the difference between reading a book and watching a film. There's more plot, more details, more background-but you have to use your imagination more, and if the people making the film are doing their job, it's likely your imagination won't quite be up there with the special effects. But what does happen is that you engage with the story being told to a far greater degree. Both reading and film-watching have their merits, and it's the same with BoE-scenario-type games and Dungeon-Siege-type games. That said, if Geneforge had come earlier I doubt anyone would have missed Avernum. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 09:05
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Some people have created short animation sequences (and even fairly long ones) in BoE. Check out Ugantan Nightmares or Foreshadows (by the Creator and Stareye, respectively) for examples of BoE cinema at its finest. —Alorael, who believes the limits on terrain tiles have been expanded for BoE. Animations will also be far easier. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3886
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 12:41
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To reply to all the posts: quote:Funny answer, that "ins't the way you should play". The problem is that in BoE, creatures always (very very often) summon monsters... it is not my choice and BoE creatures did not ask me! quote:As I said before, I won't compare BoE with huge commercial production (Dungeon Siege, Diablo, etc.). And I don't believe "Spidweb-Sceptics" exist really. Why ? Because I know that people who ONLY love Dungeon Siege and other commercial RPG with video and special effects just cannot play boE more the two minuts nor stop on this forum. If I was fond of Dungeon Siege and other big RPG games, I'd have critized harshly BeO, in each aspect of the game, from Intro, splash screen, to sounds and graphics (then scepticism is an euphemism!). But I did not. I am aware that the SW team is very small (someone said 1 person, I believe it), and, in a way, I like much "craft production" games... especially when player can participate in their own (to forum, developpement, customization, scenario, etc.) Next, I did not ask programmer team to add wondefull special effects or large videos introduction... But I believe that, with the same basic graphic resolution and colours, it is possible to do much better just with some aesthetic considerations. Some people have created short animation sequences (and even fairly long ones) in BoE.I did not know it was possible with BoE editor. Thanks for the info, I will check.quote:Are you sure that terrain limits have been expanded for the latest Blades of Avernum? Does somebody know how many custom tiles should be added ? Any idea ? Posts: 7 | Registered: Tuesday, January 13 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 13:44
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If spellcasting summoners annoy you, cast field spells (Antimagic Cloud is best, of course, but Conflagration works) centred on the spellcaster; monsters can't summon into a field. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, January 13 2004 14:17
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Blades of Avernum is still in beta. Someone mentioned increased numbers, I think, but I can't find the post anymore. —Alorael, who can find the post that says that walls, floors, and objects on floors are all in different categories. So you can put trees on different kinds of ground to provide variety in dirt as well as foliage. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 01:27
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Notes about Blades of Avernum: There are 256 possible floor types. There are 512 possible terrain types (these go on top of floors). There are around 10 default wallsets. Monsters and items have greater flexibility. Cutscenes are much more feasible and powerful. Obviously, the included graphics will just be those used in the Avernum series, along with some from Geneforge and some new ones, but there is already a comprehensive searchable graphics database for Blades of Avernum. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It desperance.net - We're Everywhere The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3886
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 07:29
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By the way, I've seen a lot of scenario for BoE, but not for Avernum... does it mean there is no scenario available for Avernum, but only for Blades of Exile, or they are the same (compatibility) ? Thank you. Posts: 7 | Registered: Tuesday, January 13 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 760
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 07:42
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quote:There is no scenarios available to Avernum because be dont have Blades of Avernum yet. How do you expect us to make scenarios with out the tools? -------------------- I am the one and only Wizard! WIZ GAMEZ The place to get the most recent gaming news! And now it has new layout! Posts: 642 | Registered: Saturday, March 16 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 09:10
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The expected Mac release is in the spring, and the PC release will come a few months later. —Alorael, who expects that one or two non-Spiderweb scenarios will be released as soon as BoA is, thanks to the beta testers. No thanks to Drakey, mind you... Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3886
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 09:51
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Sorry, I wanted to ask for scenarios for "Avernum" (Avernum 3 and previous version), and not for "Blades of Avernum" ! Is there scenario for Avernum ? or Avernum 3 use BoE scenarios ? Posts: 7 | Registered: Tuesday, January 13 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 09:58
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Avernums 1-3, like Exiles 1-3, are not scenario driven. They are each one game with one plot and area. Nobody can design new contents for them. Blades of Exile (and soon, Blades of Avernum) are created solely for the purpose of creating and running scenarios. They have no central game. So Avernum 3 runs no scenarios, only itself, and Blades of Exile is the only game that can run Blades of Exile scenarios. —Alorael, who hopes this can make things clearer. The format Jeff uses is a trilogy of "standard" games, then a scenario editor and scenario player. The scenarios need not have anything in common with the trilogy besides underlying engine. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 12:40
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I feel I should point out that whilst you can make animations in BoE, it's hideously town-intensive and therefore unsuitable for anything but a short scenario. Although I'm not sure the same applies to the technique Alcritas used, his seems to be rather less versatile. I never played the Exile games (except for briefly downloading the Exile 3 demo after playing Avernum 2 and being rather unimpressed) but I found Avernum 1 and 2 much better than the third. Geneforge, I wasn't fantastically impressed with and Geneforge 2 I just didn't like. Jeff doesn't do moral dilemnas that well, IMO. Nethergate was the best game Jeff made. BoE is the best game you can buy from Spiderweb. -------------------- Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned I'll tell you my story, man Though I wish I'd never been born I'm loose at the seams, I've broken my dreams And my hand it shakes the pen Come on, come on now baby, Let the good times roll again Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Wednesday, January 14 2004 19:29
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BtI is partially right. I included ~3 frame animation sequences in Two Strands, which is a small scenario. Assumedly, it could also work in medium scenarios. Although large scenarios... Animations aren't limited to Frame Animation. Alcritas used Pause Animation in Signs and Portents, and I used Burst Animation in Echoes: Pawns (both names used for lack of better ones). And of course, there are Special Spells, NPCs, and other innovations in BoE that go beyond anything that Jeff had imagined. Give it a spin. It really is worth it. -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |