Patrick's Tower
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| Author | Topic: Patrick's Tower |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1417
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 15:45
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I believe I've completed all of the quests for Patrick's Tower, including the librarian's. At least she wants no more books. But there's a room near her that requires 35 tool use to open and seems more a quest reward than having that high a skill to open. Does anyone know how to get into that room? Maybe a combo of tool use and Unlock doors? My tool use is 12 and my mage can open up to 25. Thanks Posts: 201 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 16:22
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It isn't a quest reward -- you just need to have a mage/thief with high Tool Use and magical skills, and cast Unlock Doors on it. Dump a few more points into your mage's Tool Use; you'll want at least 15 for disarming traps anyway. Your Mage Spells, Spellcraft and Magery skills also help with Unlock Doors, although not as much. [ Sunday, February 12, 2006 16:23: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 18:06
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By end game I could unlock lvl 30 doors. How that happened is a mystery as I didn't focus on making that spell any better. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 18:13
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With reasonably high Tool Use, Mage Spells, Magery and Spellcraft, it's entirely possible to unlock level-40 doors. So if you have a powerful mage, level 30 isn't really much of a stretch at all. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 18:20
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ooh! look at THIS. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1417
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 20:22
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Synergy, My stats are this: 17 mage, 10 magery, 10 spellcraft. And 13 tool use on my slith. How would this fit into your stat table. Is it the exact combos or the total amount? If I increase my mage spells to 18 could I open a 35 level door? Posts: 201 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 20:49
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OK Klax, let's see what you got here: 17 mage 10 magery 10 spellcraft 13 tool use x 1.5 = 19.5 Total door opening power = 56.5. You need 48 points total to open the level 35 door. If any of your skill levels above is earned freely as bonuses from traits, then you have to subtract them. Clearly, this is the case. Ask Alorael to recall his method of calculating how many free levels you have hidden in your level stats. "If I increase my mage spells to 18 could I open a 35 level door?" You could save your game and try . There's no other way of telling until you know your free bonus levels in any relevant skills and recalculating your actual earned points. Also, keep in mind that increasing magery or spellcraft have an equal effect on your magic abilities as incresing mage spell level, so increase whichever is cheapest. [ Sunday, February 12, 2006 20:51: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 21:15
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The biggest mistake I made was giving my Nephilim theif 10 lvls of Tool use. Then when the unlock door spell was availabe my human mage with only one lvl of tool use took over. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 21:18
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Was there actually anything behind the aforementioned door? I can't seem to remember there being anything useful at all. EDIT: Oh, I must've been thinking of the doors above the Tower of Magi ruins... [ Sunday, February 12, 2006 21:25: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 21:19
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Wait a minute. Are the character with all the Tool Use and the character casting Unlock Doors the same character? If they're not, the benefits don't stack. Just thought I'd clarify that, if you didn't know already. EDIT: Behind the door is a spellbook of Enduring Armour. Pretty useful if you don't already have the spell, pretty useless if you do. [ Sunday, February 12, 2006 21:21: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1417
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written Monday, February 13 2006 12:47
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Thuryl, I do indeed have my skills split between PCs. 13 on my Slith for tool use including help from the tinkers gloves and bauble, so his base is really 10. And all my mage skills on my, um, mage. Thanks for saying what's behind the door. At level 36 I don't need that anymore. Synergy, thank you for your insights. I can't imagine the amount of work you must do to calculate your stats. It's much appreciated. Posts: 201 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, February 13 2006 12:50
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You think I'm whacked...go check out some of Slartucker's work in the early A4 threads. If you play again, make your mage the one with Tool Use to make most effective door-opening abilities. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:32
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I must have missed something. Skill bonuses from traits don't help with unlocking? Wouldn't that make them bonuses on paper only? —Alorael, who could see extra Tool Use from Nimble Fingers not counting towards the 1.5x points for Unlock Door, maybe. Anything else is just cheating by A4. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:37
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My bad...and bad it was. I made a misleap in logic and memory because there was no other apparent reason to me why a mage with 56 door opening points couldn't open a door requiring only 48. And then I mixed the thought with the fact that skill bonuses don't count toward trainable skills. All apologies to the perplexed. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1417
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:37
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Synergy, Yes, I've seen Startuckers work. Incredible as well. I still don't like the idea of pinning all my tool use on my mage. She's still only a level 17 in mage spells with items. How much less would she be if I diverted all those skill points to tool use. And what about the thief character? Where does he fit in? Make him a mage as well? Anyway, I gave you and Thuryl a saintly rating which I think both of you deserve. Spiderwebbers who help one another deserve to be thanked. Posts: 201 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:43
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That was thoughtful of you, Klax. Thanks! Making your mage your thief is a worthwhile combination and can work just fine. You can also make a second mage if you really want a truly potent mage. I found my mage/thief to be plenty potent in the late game, even if he was a bit of a glass cannon. A powerful priest is more of an asset than the mage anyway. Divine Retribution is unsurpassed for sheer skull-shattering gratification. If you poke around some more in some of the Party and Trait threads, and the Singleton thread for A4, you'll see some more discussion on different possible mage/thief constructions, etc. Also, you only need 12 Tool Use and around 14-15 Mage Spell levels technically, as equippable items can bring you up to theoptimal 15 TU and 17 Mage Spells. It's really quite pointless to go over 17 Mage Spell levels. Magery and Spellcraft have the exact same improvement in mage magic strength and will surely be cheaper to bump up at that point. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 13:46: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1417
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:45
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Yeah, ok, now i'm completely confused. Going for a nap now. I rewarded the intent anyway. Edit: I still think you do great work, Snyergy. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 13:55: Message edited by: Klax ] Posts: 201 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, February 13 2006 14:05
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:confused: Doh! If, after your brain-rejuvenating nap, you care to elaborate on what is confusing you, I am sure there are many fine folk on hand here to help clarify, even if one of those persons is not me! But I will resummarize just a little of what I was saying in case it helps: 1) Your mage couldn't open the level 35 door, because she didn't have her own Tool Use to make her Unlock Doors spell more powerful. 2) Making a mage/thief PC makes the most efficient and effective way to open doors throughout the game. 3) It can be considered worthwhile to sacrifice a bit of mage strength or earlier higher levels in mage and magic skills because priests are better being more powerful than mages, both offensively, and defensively by late in the game. And as an additional thought, you could consider making a second mage if you really like mages, like, say, a nephil archer / mage perhaps. This would give you plenty of mageriffic power to indulge. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 2039
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written Monday, February 13 2006 16:15
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Um...you don't need 48 points to open a level 35 door. You need 35 points to open a level 35 door. That's what makes it a level 35 door. Your points are equal to: Tool Use + .75 * (mage spells + magery + spellcraft + levels of Unlock spell) So, for example, Tool Use 10 + a combined mage power/Unlock skill of 34 or so will do it. Hmm...you would need 48 magic points with no Tool Use skill at all to open a level 35 door. Is that what you meant? Posts: 2 | Registered: Monday, October 7 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, February 13 2006 16:18
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No, but if you go back and look at the link I posted earlier, you can see the math I was using. It was 1.5 x Tool Use rather than .75 x everything else. Your method, is probably the more correct. Does it actually add up to 35 when used that way? EDIT: Holy cow, Stuart, you've been a member since 2002, and THIS was your second post? Umm, honored I am! [ Monday, February 13, 2006 16:41: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3371
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written Monday, February 13 2006 17:17
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edit: nevermind stupid post aarg [ Monday, February 13, 2006 17:17: Message edited by: shadolupin ] -------------------- Row!!! Posts: 35 | Registered: Thursday, August 21 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Monday, February 13 2006 19:13
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Most high lvl doors aren't worth opening any way. Minimal rewards generally. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, February 13 2006 20:00
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It's a little late now, but the question isn't really what to do with your thief but why you have a thief at all. It's quite possible to get through the game and to open even most of the more ridiculous doors with only a mage. I think I managed to open up to 38 by the end. However, since mage and thief skills complement each other for unlocking, it's best not to have one thief. My own approach was to give all my knowledge brews and wisdom crystals to the mage/thief to let it thieve effectively without sacrificing magic, but you can experiment with different builds. —Alorael, who thinks the real lesson is that the hardest doors are opened by keys, quests, or not worth the effort. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, February 14 2006 00:09
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quote:Unlock Doors doesn't work on traps, though, so you still need Tool Use for that. That still doesn't justify making a thief who isn't also a mage, though. Oh well. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, February 14 2006 08:11
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Trap difficulty hits its maximum at around 15. Doors keep on going. Opening doors with a thief is a much greater expenditure of skill points than disarming traps. Opening locks with a non-thief mage is a large expenditure of skill points too, but you get someone good at something besides doors and traps out of the bargain. —Alorael, who loves him his glass cannons. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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