2 Questions
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Apprentice
Member # 6745
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written Saturday, January 28 2006 22:45
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2 Questions: 1- Is "Quick Action" useful for Polearm weapons as well as for Melee weapons? It suggests this since it doesn't exclude them (as it does missile weapons), but on the other hand, it doesn't include them either. 2- What party configuration works for you? I'm currently using the default config but wondering about using a different one. Also, tied into this, what skills did you train up by level 5 or 6? Or atleast what was the general order that you trained up your skills... Thanks in advance Posts: 1 | Registered: Saturday, January 28 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 01:18
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1. Yes. 2. Personally I like to make everyone a Custom character, since that gives me flexibility to spend skill points however I like. Using default characters or preset classes seems rather dull to me. My party setup, which worked fairly well for me throughout the game, was one swordsman, one archer/priest, one thrower/priest and one mage/thief. (Incidentally, stay away from thrown weapons; it's a huge pain to carry them around. Use bows instead.) For your frontline fighter (regardless of whether you decide to give him swords or polearms), you should try to get either Parry or Gymnastics as soon as possible to improve your defensive ability. You can afford to wait a while before putting points in Endurance, since it's only useful at higher levels. For your spellcasters, invest in appropriate spell skills (Mage Spells and/or Priest Spells) and a little Intelligence at first. Hold off on Spellcraft and Magery until later, since you can buy training for them in Cotra if you haven't put skill points into them. By the way, see this thread to find out what the requirements are to gain hidden skills like Parry, Gymnastics and Magery. One more thing: it's very, very important to make your Tool Use character a mage. The Unlock Doors spell and the Tool Use skill have a synergistic effect, allowing you to open some doors that you can't reasonably unlock any other way. With Unlock Doors and decent Magery and Spellcraft, you'll only ever need about 15 Tool Use to open everything that can be opened; without Unlock Doors, you'll spend ridiculous amounts on Tool Use throughout the whole game and still be unable to open some doors. [ Sunday, January 29, 2006 01:29: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 10:00
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I like having two fighters, one using polearms and one using swords, and two mage/priests who are identical except that one of them gets trained in Tool Use. Berserker is decent for a swordsman and one of the classes (hedge mage or shaman, I forget which) works for mage/priests, but I usually make everyone custom. Thuryl's guidelines for training are pretty good. Generally, it's easier to hit things than to avoid being hit by things. Not getting hurt is essential. Along with the other abilities, Elite Warrior and/or Divinely Touched are very helpful for the Parry bonuses. —Alorael, who recommends not training anyone in archery or throwing until you reach Camp Samuels and do a quest there. You can then purchase reasonably cheap ranged skills with coins instead of skill points, and then your fighters and casters should all be effective killers with bows. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 15:28
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Divinely Touched doesn't give you a Parry bonus. It gives bonuses to Blademaster, Sharpshooter and Magery. (Mind you, that's still pretty good.) Oh, that reminds me; it's not a bad idea to make anyone who's going to be doing any melee combat or archery (which is probably your entire party) a Nephil. You get bonuses to Gymnastics and missile weapon skills. [ Sunday, January 29, 2006 15:29: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 18
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 17:55
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Hmmm... I started off making a custom party this time around playing A4, mostly because I wanted one of those new fangled Theifmages™. But when I tried to re-create just the simple soldier class, I found myself short of skill points! What's the deal? Why do the pre-made classes get more skill points than the custom ones? Or am I wrong, and was just really tired (or just generally stupid) at the time? Just seemed weird to me. Md. Posts: 304 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 18:26
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Pre-made classes get more skill points than custom ones, sometimes a lot more. It has always been this way with SW's games, at least as far back as I've played. I'm not entirely sure why, either. [ Sunday, January 29, 2006 18:27: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 18:28
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Probably because a lot of skill points in most of the premade classes are put in... suboptimal places. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 21:55
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I never use custom. Usually A Nephilim shaman, Slith soldier, human berzerker, and a human sorcerer. True Spirit and natural mage are excellent traits for a priest and mage. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, January 30 2006 10:05
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Natural Mage is great. Pure Spirit gives you a slight edge with extra Priest points, but Magical Efficiency is worthless and you'd be better off with a more helpful trait. Divinely Touched, complete with Magery (but no Parry) bonus, springs to mind. There is no reason ever to make any character human except cosmetics. Experience penalties don't actually penalize you because of experience dropoff as you gain levels, so you're better off making everyone a slith or a nephil. Gymnastics and archery are usually better than polearms and minimal fire resistance, so learn to love your kitties. —Alorael, who doesn't think the points are suboptimal so much as scattered. A lot of classes are kind of okay at lots of things, but what your really want is excellence in one or two areas. Berserkers have that. Nothing else really does. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6703
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 02:28
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quote:So in other words, my Rogue that I made especially for this purpose and who isn't really good at anything else, is far surpassed at this, one of her main abilities, by a Mage? I'm not going to restart and I've already spent almost all my Rogues points in Tool Use, so let me just ask something else instead. What do you think I will have to end up spending in Tool Use on my Rogue in order to make up for it being on a pure Rogue? How high will it have to be total, if the other can get away with 15 with the Unlock spell, how high will I have to go totally on my Rogue in order to open the same stuff? My Tool Use on her is already 11, so I'm not going to abandon it and this is the one task I specifically wanted this character for so I'll keep her and role play it if I have to. I don't care how much it ends up hurting me, she's staying as she is so I just need the information on how much I should end up having to spend. I haven't seen all the information on these boards so if you know what I will end up having to spend, let me know please. Posts: 14 | Registered: Wednesday, January 18 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 02:47
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quote:Well, it's more a matter of a mage with Tool Use skill being much more competent at unlocking doors than either a mage alone or a Tool Use character alone. You still need Tool Use as well, it's just that Tool Use on its own won't cut it unless you also have the Unlock Doors spell. The intention of this design decision was to make Tool Use and magical unlocking complement each other instead of competing with each other. quote:20 Tool Use will open 90% of all the locked doors that can't be unlocked any other way. Getting to 20 Tool Use is a bit of a pain, but still entirely feasible, especially since there are a couple of equippable items that boost Tool Use. However, there are one or two doors you will never be able to unlock at all without the spell -- notably, one that requires 28 Tool Use (barely possible to achieve without cheating if you really pump the skill at the expense of everything else), and another that requires 35 Tool Use (literally impossible without the spell, since skills only go up to 30.) You can get by quite well without ever opening those particular doors, but it's still frustrating if you want to see everything there is to see in the game. quote:Are you sure it wouldn't be easier to just start investing in Mage Spells for her? It only takes 6 Mage Spells skill to get Unlock Doors (although you'll want to pump it higher, along with Spellcraft and Magery, for the tougher doors), and mage spells are useful for other things too. 11 Tool Use is perfectly reasonable even quite early in the game, since traps requiring 15 Tool Use start showing up quite early on, and Unlock Doors doesn't help with traps. Your thief definitely isn't a lost cause -- unless you have some serious roleplaying objection to doing so, just start giving her mage spells already, and stop raising Tool Use once it gets to 15. You know, to avoid this kind of mess in future games, perhaps we should suggest to Jeff that he replace Unlock Doors with a spell that confers a temporary status effect on one character, giving that character a bonus to unlocking attempts (similar to the effect of the Rogue's Elixir in BoA). That way, Tool Use and unlocking magic are both still useful, but players who make their mage and thief separate characters aren't screwed over as a result. [ Wednesday, March 08, 2006 02:59: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3241
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 04:24
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Realistic too, as why couldn't the spell be casted on someone other than you? -------------------- Visit the www.monkkonen.net and if you like, be the member of the forums. Posts: 76 | Registered: Sunday, July 20 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 09:09
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The rationale for the spell as is could be that the mage magically unlocks the door and better understanding of locks means the mage can unlock more complicated contraptions magically. —Alorael, who finished his first game of A4 quite happily with two mages that had no Tool Use and one fighter with Tool Use in the upper teens (and Nimble Fingers). One thing that helps is giving all the Knowledge Brews and Wisdom Crystals you find to the lockpicker so that it doesn't fall behind in combat skills. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 10:07
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The changes to Tool Use threw me for a loop at first too. In A1-A3, it was "Bing! All doors are now open". In BoA, it was "Bing! Now use your rogue for the rest". Now, I'm no longer able to have priests and mages who do nothing but max out on Intelligence, Mage/Priest, and Magery. By the way, does anyone know why JV swapped the graphics for herbs? Spiritual is now Energetic, Graymold is now Spiritual... Arghhhhhhhhh!!! -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: The hero is not entitled to a last kiss, a last cigarette, or any other form of last request. Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 11:56
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quote:It's still possible, as Alorael said. In my first game, I was able to get a rogue to level 25 Tool Use. Granted, it absorbed a lot of late-game knowledge brews, but it still worked just fine. And the rogue could still hack'n'slash with the best of them. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, March 8 2006 12:27
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I made an opposite choice. My mage eventually became better at unlocking than my thief, so in the end I used my thief for easy locks and traps only. The mage just had enough Magery and Spellcraft to open locks into the twenties. —Alorael, whose crowning achievement was unlocking Athron's lair, looting it, and then learning that there is a key. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6703
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written Thursday, March 9 2006 13:01
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Yeah I might end up giving her magic so she can cast Unlock too and still keep her as my Rogue type. I'll decide on it soon, I have a few other things to work out on character development in my mind before I decide. It was just disappointing to set up a character as a Rogue thinking I'll be missing out on combat skills and miss having a much better character type in the slot, but that this one at least will be able to open all the doors and things for me, to end up finding out that really she won't because a Mage will Tool use is the real unlocker. I guess it's because I'm new to Avernum games and so I started the game and read the description of Rogue and felt that it would be the best at opening things. I see now that I should have researched it before I started, though it still is sad that her main use would actually be bypassed with a magic user who had tool use. Being able to cast unlock on others really would make this work out. My Rogue could still be the best at being a Rogue, while my magic user could just boost the Rogue's skills in that area. That's actually a really great idea that would have been nice to have in the game. Anyway thanks a lot for the replies on this issue. I wish I had read up on things on these boards before I started to go through the game, but I'll make due and make changes as I go to make up for it. I really like the game though so I don't want to seem as if I'm complaining, I just was disappointed by this one thing and was looking for more information about it. Thanks everybody. Posts: 14 | Registered: Wednesday, January 18 2006 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Thursday, March 9 2006 15:27
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Dikiyoba likes Chosimba's style... Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |