[GF3] Tips for higher difficulty settings? Also, batons and Daze? Also, tip @ Rahul.
| Author | Topic: [GF3] Tips for higher difficulty settings? Also, batons and Daze? Also, tip @ Rahul. |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 14:30
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I tried Tricky Difficulty just for fun after the cakewalk that was cleaning out Dhonal Island after freeing Greiner. Everything went more-or-less well untill I got to Cultist Woods on Full Island. The roaming bands of Serviles (yes, I realize you could avoid them but I'm a "kill-all-that-breathes" loyalist :D ) kill me very quickly. What I notice immediatly between "Normal" (what I am playing at during my first run through) and "Tricky" is that I get hit more often and for much more... Since I'm a Guardian my options are fairly limited... With that in mind I tried Daze. It seems to be resisted most every time everywhere no matter how much I try it. Granted my Mental Magic is at 1 and my Spellcraft is at 0. Which one of these (or how) would effect the success chance of Daze? Since I have an Oozing Blade that drains HP I now, more than ever, prefer to waltz right in and start hacking away. An interesting thing I noticed is that different weapons have different AP costs for using them? For example I can swing the Oozing Blade twice a turn at an adjacent target but it seems I can only use the Guardian Claymore (my standin before I get the Frozen Blade against Rotgorths... fought one on the docks and they are scaaaaryyy...) once? Anyway, back on topic. I was wondering about Batons. It seems that the strongest is the Reaper but my guess is that it'll come quite late in the game. Submission seems nice (it's a step 'up', right?) but the "Stun" effect hardly seems worth it compared to the additional Acid damage from an Acid Baton (or, if you feel like it, stacking Acid and Poison from their respective Batons). I guess the concesus on the boards is to get Poison, then Acid and then hold out till Reaper if you really want to twirl a Baton in a fight? All that aside, back to my original question. I would really like my next playthrough (mostly solo 100% pro-rebel, it'll-suck-in-the-beginning Agent) to be on Tricky or even higher difficulty level. Any character development, tactics or other tips or suggestions? Finally, this is likely old news but I was delighted to discover that blocking pathways works in Geneforge just as well as it does in other similar games. Case in point: I was unable to get into Lord Rahul's chambers for some reason (probably he lets you in only later in the game?). He taunted me to use my "ingenuity" so I tried repeatedly to get past the many guards and creations flitting through the halls of his rooms. Finally I lined up Greta and Alwan so they completely blocked the first entryway into the "private chambers" and deactivated them for good measure so I wouldn't accidentally move them. All this left was one guard who walked between the two parts of the hallway giving me plenty of time to sneak into Lord Rahul's rooms (but not to the canister). Why not to the canister? Because bottleknecking two guards and two creations made their walking animations cycle without end and made the game lag HORRENDOUSLY. I was able to take it slow and loot Lord Rahul's room and storage but decided that everything else was not worth the effort. Still, a nice tactic for any pro-rebels that want the goodies without the hassle! Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 15:34
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Daze finally became very effective in GF3. Spellcraft improves all you magic spells (battle, blessing, and mental) so try to increase this one. Mental is cheaper and for a guardian that is important so add a few levels by the second island. Daze will have a chance against basically all the monsters that can attack you, So daze first against several opponents and then go after the closest ones that resist. You may have to repeat for large groups. If they are dazed then they can't hurt you. For torment the monster's health, damage and a few other things increases. So battles take longer and they hit harder. You have to be more careful. The best thing to do is go after all the experience that you can. So put some points to mechanics so you can unlock doors without using more than one living tool (8 to 10 for the first island). In the testing area, go through one side and then go back through the other to kill testing creations for extra experience. It's hard but doable with some buffing and several attempts to figure out how. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 15:40
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Getting Rahul's gear was the main push my Guardian needed on Torment. Before that he had quite a hard time with the Vlish on Harmony, and all I can suggest is to hoard speed pods and icy crystals as much as possible until then. Buy all you can, since they're cheap. Once you get to Rahul and rob his bedroom, it should be clear sailing. I usually don't bother with creations or mental magic as a Guardian, but I can't resist pumping intelligence and blessing magic enough to get Speed. Speed is good. Build the Shroud as early as you can, then upgrade to the Chestguard later. Keep Quick Action high enough that you always act first. With 15 AP not much can go wrong. Every weapon except crystals takes the same 5 AP to use, so whatever difference you noticed with your two swords, it must have been due to something else. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 16:29
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Originally by Eugi: quote:Enough of an increase in Quick Action from somewhere to get a second swing more often, perhaps? Did you add any quicksilver or other AP boosting items? Dikiyoba really has no other ideas to explain what you describe. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 16:58
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I think I may have been slowed and had 9 instead of 10 AP at the time without noticing it. If all swords and batons use 5AP per attack then I blame my lack of attention to detail at that time :P This makes me wish I had a breakdown of how much AP each attack or action takes. I know that it's 5AP per sword swing/baton shot and 3AP per Crystal use. 1AP to change weapons. I believe accessing your inventory during combat is "free". Also, I think casting any kind of spell is 5AP as well? And drinking any kind of potion is 3AP? Any other action that can be performed during battle that I missed? And really looking forward to input regarding Batons. On Gull Island now (playing a flip-flopping loyalist) and went back to Acid from Submission :( Looks like the first Reaper Baton is in Khyryk's Tower T_T Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 20:38
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Moving one space costs 1/2 AP. There's no movement grid visible, but there actually is one, and it's hexagonal. And although you can have 1/2 an AP, the game always shows your AP rounded down. So if you have 9 base AP and get +50% from speed, you can actually take one step before your AP drops from 13 to 12; but if you have 8 base AP, then the slightest move drops you from 12 to 11. And so on. This is why it will sometimes seem as though you can move a step at no cost, and sometimes not. I always found submission batons worthwhile. Their stunning effect takes away enemy AP, making them take longer to get to you. If you have speed and hit with several shots in one round, your target may not be able to attack afterwards. But the acid effect is still sometimes useful, so it can be worth keeping a few acid batons till the end. Or at least until you can get the oozing blade. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Thursday, March 29 2007 23:15
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quote:Does anything effect how effective your stun is? I must be doing something wrong because I hit something twice with a Stun Baton and it still has the AP to move in and attack :( Overall I already have the life draining Oozing Blade and eagerly awaiting the Frozen Blade for those Acid Resistant enemies (Rothgorth)... Wondering if there are any Reviving Crystals besides the two mentioned in the walkthrough. Oh, any thoughts on Reaper Batons? Also, thank you for clarifying the walking part of GF3. I wish Jeff would give us more options (such as seeing the grid and the like). =/ Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, March 30 2007 00:00
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quote:It's somewhat random, and some enemies are more vulnerable than others. In concert with a couple of Glaahks it's a pretty reliable way of locking down one enemy. On its own, it's only going to stop things in their tracks some of the time. [ Friday, March 30, 2007 00:01: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, March 30 2007 00:10
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Raising dexterity and missile weapons boosts the effect of all batons (and wands and crystals): you miss more rarely, and you do more dice worth of damage. I believe the great thing about submission batons is that their damage dice are bigger. So if you have a high total missile attack factor, you can really do a lot of damage with a submission baton; if your skills are low, the difference from an acid baton will only be a few points. Whether this directly affects the stunning, I don't know, but I think at some point you can get stunning with any weapon just from applying a lot of damage quickly. I'm afraid I'm not reliable about these kinds of details for any one game anymore, because the four games kind of blend together in my memory, and there have been a lot of little changes at this level. But the bottom line is that submission batons are well worth it if you have enough missile skill. Reapers are quite decent even if you don't have high missile skill, and they're lethal if you do. My memory may be failing here, but I think that the statistics you see in the game are misleading, because in addition to the direct damage from the baton and the thorn, there is the 'reaping' effect, which is very nice. Walk into the first reaper turret you find to see that it looks like. Save first. [ Friday, March 30, 2007 00:13: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Friday, March 30 2007 00:28
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Funny that you mention that SoT, I just cleared out the Reaper Turrets on Gull Island about an hour ago. Not sure what the "Reaping" effect is but they were quite vicious. Not so bad on the PC but Awlan was being hit for ~200 a shot. Thankfully with judicious use of tree cover I was able to kill all the turrents (level 34 Guardian PC and 28 Awlan NPC). I'm having a dickens of a time imagining what the game is like on a higher difficulty setting though. I doubt a Guardian would fair well (or I'd have neough patience for it). Hopefully you get more exp per kill on higher difficulty levels to make up for things? Well, we'll see once I replay as a pro-rebel (can't afford GF4 yet :( ). Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, March 30 2007 00:38
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The Guardian is generally considered the hardest class to play in G3; as you predict, it does poorly on Torment, although it's playable as long as you really know your way around the game. Killing enemies on higher difficulties doesn't result in more experience. It wouldn't be a higher difficulty if it weren't more difficult, now would it? :P -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, March 30 2007 06:01
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Between the different factions, the different classes, and the different difficulty levels, these games do offer a lot of replay value. Heck, even trying a different style of playing a Guardian, or a different mix of creations as a Shaper, can give you a different enough game to be fun again a few months later. After Delicious Vlish raved about his missile Guardians, last year I started trying all the games over again with them, and it was great. But I got too busy near the end of G2 and never got back to that. The fact that the Guardian is quite tough on Torment makes it fun, once you know what you're doing. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, March 30 2007 07:00
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Reapers have no "reaping" effect. They just do a lot of damage with a nice sound effect. As SoT mentioned, stunning is somewhat random. However, it should be noted that Glaahks only have extra stunning power in G1 and G2. In G3 the way status effects were implemented was changed somewhat, and Glaahks cause slowing rather than stunning. The same is true of G4. This is a very unfortunate change, as they can no longer debilitate a creature even if they can't damage it much. In G3 in particular it makes all their attacks inferior to a Vlish. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, March 30 2007 07:00
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Originally by Student of Trinity: quote:Are you sure? I thought I remember Jeff saying it wasn't hexagonal. Not that Dikiyoba remembers where he might have said that. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Friday, March 30 2007 08:28
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Yep, Jeff point-blank denied it in this thread. quote: -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, March 30 2007 10:20
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Hmm, I guess it isn't a hexagonal grid after all. Here all this time I've been sure it was, because things all seem to behave hexagonally when you're trying to crowd around an enemy or pack a bunch of creations into a small space. But I guess what it is instead is just a much finer grid than the size of your characters, which behave as hard disks. So packing is hexagonal because that's how disks pack in two dimensions. But then is everything the same size? I don't think I've ever been able to swarm a drakon with more than six smaller creations, but maybe I've just never tried hard enough. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Friday, March 30 2007 12:17
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When I was killing the Drayk that was infested with worms (and whose worms had worms :D ) my PC was surrounded by eight worms all attacking together. Overall I am ready to believe that a square grid is used. I just think that the grid is "turned" 45 degrees so the squares are "standing" on their angles instead of the sides. Back on topic though, I'm wondering if I'd have to change the build for Torment at all. Does the amount of Leadership and Mechanics you need to go through the game rise in Torment difficulty setting? Also, should I consider investing more points into Endurance no matter what class I pick? I'm guessing the tradeoff between better armor (Blessing Crystals) versus better chance to hit (Ivory Skulls) will be much more important. Oh, and has anyone been able to figure out the approximate effect of Tiny Orb of Mist since Matt's guide? :o Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, March 30 2007 12:51
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Leadership and mechanics are the same for all difficulties. You need more as you go through the islands. One trick is to use leadership against certain creations where you gain experience if it is high enough (the thahd outside Greenwood Academy and the five blocking the bridge) and then immediately go into fight mode to kill them for bonus experience. Guardians have it tough in GF3 since the broken parry of GF2 was fixed. Still some people have used them without too much trouble. I ran one through the first 2 islands before I stopped the game. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, March 30 2007 13:11
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quote:It's not true of G4 -- Glaahks have definitely gone back to stunning. (Of course, because of the new AP system they're questionably useful in G4 as well.) -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Friday, March 30 2007 13:12
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quote:This is actually something I am trying to pay more attention to on what's left of this and any subsequent run throughs. I'm thinking about Stonespire right now. I am loyalist and from the walkthrough I understand that Shapers will "retake control" (e.g. all the serviles will leave) Stonespire after I complete Khyryk's quests. Trying to figure out what's a good time to go in and slaughter the lot of them for the additional exp... Also, fun note - the alchemist in that town (the one to whom you return the ripped in half book) goes hostile if you attack the serviles. Traitourous bastard! Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, March 30 2007 13:28
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quote:Hmm, you're right. Whoops. I have to say, I'm not sure why even bother with the Stun mechanic the way it's implemented in G4. It just doesn't do much of anything. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Friday, March 30 2007 22:01
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Unrelated to the thread but I've made so many new threads in this forum I don't want to litter with a new one. Just finished Gull Island and... Alwan left. I really wish the walkthrough would have mentioned that killing Khyryk would cause this. (I guess you could say it's a no-brainer but still :o ). So now I'm alone. All alone in the frozen wastes of Island of Spears. At Dhonal Greta left, now Alwan left, my Fyora stopped being efficient a long time ago and it's just me. A lone Guardian with chattering teeth against the Drayks and the howling wind... Edit: Of course, all of this just gives me more incentive to murder everything that moves that much more! All hail the Way of the Shapers! [ Friday, March 30, 2007 22:02: Message edited by: Eugi ] Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Friday, March 30 2007 22:15
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If you're helping the shapers, why did you kill Khyrryk? -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Saturday, March 31 2007 08:40
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Um... for phat lewts and exp?! duh lol! It's weird though. The dude gives you an Anget Cloak and yet he drops another one when killed. :eek: Jokes aside I need to redo this section of Gull Island and spare Khyryk. Also kill Shaper Agatha only after I complete her quests. I got a bit kill happy on the first islands and killed Dwaina and the dude in Mined Woods and now can't learn Augmentation :( Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8338
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written Monday, April 2 2007 19:41
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Nevermind, figured it out. [ Monday, April 02, 2007 20:09: Message edited by: Eugi ] Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00 |