Dextrous Agent
| Author | Topic: Dextrous Agent |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 08:23
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(Goal: Keep enemy hit percentage at 1%.) Here's another build thought. This came out of my singleton build for A4, which relied on Dex, Gymnastics, Luck, and Enduring Shield to boost my dodge chances to obscene levels. At first glance, this seems more difficult in Geneforge, since you don't have the Gymnastics or Defense skills, which tended to contribute about 50% and 30% dodge bonuses, respectively, to my A4 build. However, Geneforge offers several advantages. 1) The Dex and Luck bonuses do not go to 50% power after 10 points. (YAY!) 2) Geneforge has the power of the Tiny Orbs of Mist! Used to enhance armor, they give the "Harder to Hit" bonus, which gives you a 5% bonus to dodge. There is also the usual selection of equipment and charms that naturally boost Dex, Luck, and Spellcraft. 3) Unlike in Avernum, the magical shield doesn't get weaker over time (within the same area, of course). 4) Your enemies make very few area of effect attacks. Those can't be dodged, and at the end of A4 there are lots of those. 5) Unlike in Avernum, most magical attacks get a bonus to hit of 10% or 20%. In Avernum, they tended to get a bonus of 40% or greater. But here's the best part. Since you are putting lots of points into Dex and Spellcraft anyway, you end up being quite good with missiles and at least passable with spells -- so you're not playing a gimpy character at all. Here's a rundown of dodging bonuses available: 5%/pt Dexterity 2%/pt Luck 5%/item with Tiny Orb of Mist enhancement 10% flat bonus for Protection ~10% flat bonus for Essence Shield ~18% flat bonus for Essence Armor (not cumulative with Shield) ~1-2%/pt Blessing Magic ~1-2%/pt Spellcraft ~1-2%/pt Essence Shield/Armor As in Avernum, this is tremendously easy to pull off on lower difficulties -- the enemies are lower level, so they have naturally lower hit percentages -- but I think it can be done on Torment, too. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 10:06
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Interesting. Yet more contribution as to why the Agent can render her self physically immune. I might have to try this sort of build on a Missile Agent. My brain demands that I attempt the experiment. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 11:24
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I've just started it and it's going great. Well, mostly great. Thorn batons don't kill anything, and I'm very low on javelins. Icy crystals, on the other hand, are AMAZING. Now I know how you felt when you first ran the missile guardian. I'm up to about 9 Dex and 6 Luck. The only other stat I pumped was a few obligatory points into Mechanics. Weak enemies rarely hit me. Stronger ones do hit. I do well when I use crystals, or bless and shield. I have problems when I don't. I need more javelins and more wands of fire. (Never thought I'd say that.) I think the key is going to be being very careful about what order I complete areas in. A difference of 2 levels is HUGE, and I can't go after enemies much stronger than I am -- I have to be patient. I'm not used to that so much. I'm looking forward to getting some better equipment, maybe on Harmony. That will definitely make things easier. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 13:08
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When you get a Discipline Wand you are going to wet your self. Save every gemstone and beautiful crystal... You can make lots of Icy Crystals that way. Pumping any missile skill? The plain old thorns baton should be tagging at least some kills. Maybe not in the first shot, but with a little blessing and some speed, you should be able to take stuff down in a round. Venom batons are better. I am pondering the build currently... High dex, mid strength, high mental magic, low battle magic. Probably no canisters. Unsure of side. I strongly suspect that the Agent will absolutely rule with missiles, as strange as that may sound. I mean, it is a step down from what she can do with battle magic, but on the other hand, it allows serious conservation of spell points and essence. Strong Daze should allow sniping in complete comfort. Nailing something with an acid baton and then using terror to make it run away and die some place should be plenty effective. With Dominate, you wont need creation support. Thinking about it, a no canister agent would get the most out of missiles... With no Aura of Flames and limited high level battle magic damage, as well as somewhat lowered stats, etc, in relation to canister use, lower energy and essence, etc, being able to conserve energy through decimation with missiles should actually prove most valuable, and dare I say, more powerful than melee. The ability to have a back up plan, an ace in the sleeve, the ability to whip out a jeweled wand and unleash hell when you don't have enough juice left to fire off your own searing orbs should really be quite handy. And with Inferno Wands, even no canister Agents could have limited access to higher level spells like Aura of Flames at just about as much damage as a canister abuser. Once again, the Agent is having her cake and eating it too. The ability to cast Mass Energise and Strong Daze, and then letting loose with a reaper baton is almost to good. Nuts... I gotta try it. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 13:24
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I'm going to buy two levels of missiles pronto when I get to San Ru. Other than that, I think I have to stick to pumping Dex and Luck. High Luck means I don't have to worry about missing anyway, and the goal is not to make myself have 50% dodge and a killer attack; it's to get 99% dodge and a decent attack. Dex pumps dodge and missiles. Missiles just pumps missiles. Dex wins. The thorn batons would kill in two shots, but the one round of HP generation seems to be just enough to keep stuff alive. I'm still on Greenwood. Once I get to Harmony and get Speed that should make things a lot better. Daze is a lifesaver as always, though not pumping Int or Mental Magic or Spellcraft (not yet, anyway) is annoying. I'm not putting points into Strength unless I absolutely must. If I get the dodge high enough, I don't have to worry about heavy armor, especially once I get the armor spells. Of course the agent will rule with missiles! It is a step down from spells, but it is a step up from a guardian with missiles. :D -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7166
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 13:32
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So to get the best evasion you get both Luck and Dex? Never knew that.. i might make an all Dex and Str guard, or agent. Depends. Ohh. yeah can some1 tell me what skills should i get first when i start off as a Shaper? i want the best stats to start off and i will be set Posts: 4 | Registered: Saturday, May 27 2006 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 13:43
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Uhmm... These things remind me the Thand Shade with maxed Dex... Is not the same, tough... -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 14:47
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Hmm. Now that's an interesting idea. One Shaper, one creation. Get a creation up to the mid 20's in level (easy), pump Dex to the max, wear some Dex boosting items, should be easy to get it to 30 Dex. I assume the stats are still capped at 30 for creations as well as PCs, though haven't had occasion to test this since G1... hmm, if they are still capped, this would actually work best with a Thahd Shade, after all. So you get 150% from Dex, 20% from Nimbleness, and then your PC can focus on pumping Blessing Magic and Spellcraft for a big Essence Armor boost. Hmm. Not bad. Unfortunately, if your Thahd does get hit, your Shaper is too far way to heal it. Either that, or your Shaper is right there and thus the point of an unstrikable Thahd is defeated, anyway. Neat idea though. [ Saturday, May 27, 2006 14:49: Message edited by: Vlishnu ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5870
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written Saturday, May 27 2006 20:11
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You can learn haste on green island. The mage east of the fort teaches that. Haste does make a huge difference. quote: Posts: 122 | Registered: Tuesday, May 31 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Sunday, May 28 2006 08:42
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This build is starting to disappoint me. For one thing, attacks that the engine claims have a 1% chance of hitting me are definitely hitting me more than 1 in 100 times. They almost always miss, but they hit often enough that I can't assume they will miss. If that continues to be the case, it pretty much destroys the entire premise of the build, and I'm gonna have to abandon it. More importantly, I figured out the problem with missiles, and the reason that Icy Crystals are amazing while batons are not: javelins and batons all do physical damage. I never paid much attention to physical resists (i.e., armor) on enemies before, because it's common and usually low. But it really is VERY common, and when you don't have Quick Action to double up your damage, it becomes quite noticeable. Specifically, I became irate when I noticed that Firebolt was doing more damage than Javelins were, despite having Dex+MiW of 13 and Battle+Spellcraft of 3, and despite Javelins having a higher multiplier than Firebolt. But look at the list of things with physical resistance: 15% Servile 20% Roamer 25% Spawner, Turret 30% Servile, Thahd, Vlish, Specter, Glaahk, Spinecore 40% Clawbug, Fighter, Battle Alpha, Drayk, Drakon 50% Servant Mind, Golem, Rotghroth 60% Pylon Basically, everything not named Fyora or Artila has built in armor. Sure, there are things that resist fire or ice or energy; but (especially for energy) there are less. A spell-slinging Agent can just change to a different spell. A Shaper can either employ multiple creation types, can switch to physical instead of breath attacks, or can use items and spells as supplements. A character who relies on melee or missile weapons doesn't have those options so much. Icy Crystals are wonderful, as are wands, but there aren't enough to use them as regular attacks. THIS is why melee got so much worse in G3, too! -- the dice dropped to 4 AND the resists got ramped up, including physical resists. GRRRRR! -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Sunday, May 28 2006 09:12
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Er, that's why I typically use batons... Shaped lances and such are still nice against some foes, but batons have a nice ancillary effect. Especially submission batons, which stun and leach away action points. Acid and venom batons are nice for countering regeneration. Reapers of course are stupidly good... What sort of damage do they do anyway? I haven't found anything yet that they wont damage. I am betting some kind of magic damage. I have found that certain types of serviles seem to resist acid, so the venom baton is handy, while others tend to resist poison, so the acid baton comes in to play. Not much can resist the submission baton, and it is quite good against golems. Also good is to blast somebody with a venom / acid baton and then blast them with Terror. Terror does quite a bit of damage on it's own, and then the poor sap runs off and dies someplace. Ultimately, most missiles are a form of ancillary damage delivery. Some do considerable damage, but for most, their effect on a target is far more valuable. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Sunday, May 28 2006 09:43
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Reapers do physical damage, just like regular batons. I guess it's just that their multiplier is so high (1-12) that they do respectable damage even against a 40% resistant enemy. Neh. I guess things will improve once Venom Thorns become less of a rarity. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Sunday, May 28 2006 10:01
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quote:Harvest all of those turrets in the gatherer's camp. You can collect dozens of thorns there. The plain old vanilla baton runs out of gas to soon. Blessing helps though. Doubles the damage most of the time. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5870
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written Sunday, May 28 2006 14:39
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quote:Actually there is one melee weapon that does not physical but acid damage - the mighty oozing blade. Few in the game have a decent acid resistance, though those do usually very high. Posts: 122 | Registered: Tuesday, May 31 2005 07:00 |