1/10 discussion...
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 12:48
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As we didn't get to it in the chat, I guess we should just discuss here. Plus, more voices can be heard. Here's what I propose: Looking back at an older thread, I guess the rules will stay the same. 1. No more than 1 outdoor section, no more than 10 zones. Less is acceptable. 2. The scenario can't have been entered in a previous contest. 3. The deadline would be the around the end of March. 4. Open to both BoE and BoA. 5. I doubt I'll see any BoE entries, but if there are entries from both, we should discuss judging requirements. There won't be too high demand for judges in a short contest. 6. Judging would be done by a straight ranking average. Scoring is done in secret. 7. Scenarios entered in this contest are still elgible for the 9th Contest when it comes. 8. Everything should be official once the 8th Contest is over. These are proposed rules. If there's anything you'd like to add/delete/change/whatever, or have questions, now is the time for discussion. [ Tuesday, January 02, 2007 19:57: Message edited by: BainIhrno ] -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 13:05
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I've said this before, but I would like scores to be emailed to a judging coordinator, not posted in a forum before all scores are in. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 16:21
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Question: Would combining towns to stay under the 10 town limit be OK? For example one could fit four unrelated small towns in one large town. Heck, by using scripts to redraw terrain you could theoretically do a lot more than that. I don't see this being a problem, and don't plan to do it myself, I was just wondering what we would do if somebody showed up with a thirty town scenario crammed into 10 towns. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 17:05
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Alas, that wouldn't be allowed. The rules are that you can only use ten towns, town meaning the editor definition of town. -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 17:25
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Uh, I think he meant cramming several separate explorable locations into one of the editor definition of town. In which case it would be allowed. See, this is why A4/G* calls them zones. Much less potential for confusion. :P [ Saturday, December 30, 2006 17:27: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 17:35
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Ah. My mistake. I thought he was talking about combining towns a la Indepedence City or Keptus. -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 18:29
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Multiple small towns in one big town seems legitimate in some circumstances, but not in other. For example, Keilan in Dilecia or that city in Rats Aplenty both have "Upstairs" where there are several small rooms in one large town. This seems fair to me. But combining the Dwarf Mine where Hypothetical Scenario begins, with the Wicked Wizard's Tower where the end-game battle takes place (two towns that wouldn't logically be together) wouldn't be fair, and should be counted as two towns. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 18:38
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quote:I don't see why. Suppose one sets aside one town entirely for cutscenes, but the cutscenes themselves take place in different towns. Is that okay or not? No, asking people to make that kind of judgement call is far too airy-fairy and subjective for me. I say whatever you can cram into the space of 10 BoA towns is OK. If the scenario suffers for said cramming, that'll be reflected in its score. If it doesn't, then who cares that it technically uses the same town for two different locations? [ Saturday, December 30, 2006 18:39: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7000
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 18:40
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I might actually get ITS done in time for this. -------------------- "It's sort of like Star Wars. Except Jeff didn't make Erika shoot first in Avernum 3, nor did he introduce annoying computer-animated aliens." —Arancaytar The Spiderweb Chat Room Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 178 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 18:50
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I'm with Thuryl. It's about what you can do with ten editor-defintion towns and one editor-definition outdoor section. Plus, it be easier on the judges. Also of note - you don't have to use everything. You can use less than 10 towns and/or not have an outdoor section. [ Saturday, December 30, 2006 18:50: Message edited by: BainIhrno ] -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 19:02
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quote:If that's the general consent then I'll go along with it. The reason I brought it up is because it occurred to me just how much content one could squeeze in 10 large towns, especially if one altered terrains using scripts. The prospect just seemed to go against the spirit of a Short Scenario Contest. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 19:15
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Yes, it is possible to do this, but would require a lot of work. Also, if it would be too visible, it would detract quite a bit. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5576
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 20:06
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I would say that we aren't in too much danger of seeing a scenario that completely rewrites one zone to be two different towns; keep in mind that a script redrawing the town would not be able to move special rectangles, terrain scripts, or area descriptions. Even if a designer made two sets of special rectangles and terrain scripts both in the same zone, one set of which is dormant at any given time, it would take the designing to a whole new level of difficulty, and I think likely make it totally prohibitive. Besides, I agree with Lazarus that this would be totally out of the spirit of the short contest. In any case, anyone who wants to make a large scenario can enter it in another contest. Aside from this theoretical discussion, I think that I will have an entry for this contents, Stairway, which stands at 3 towns and may grow slightly. -------------------- Überraschung des Dosenöffners! "On guard, you musty sofa!" Posts: 627 | Registered: Monday, March 7 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Saturday, December 30 2006 21:29
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Yay for people who have/will have/might have entries! (The town limit might end up biting me... I have one town in my scenario that's just the upper floor of an inn. Very annoying, but oh well... I can cope.) -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Sunday, December 31 2006 07:16
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quote:Me too... and I could just cull it, but I don't wanna. Anyway, TV should be ready (I hope) for then, and will be eligible. All I have to do is actually work on it... -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? *Name by Slarty Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 18:45
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Updated the rules a bit, please comment. -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 19:03
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quote:I like this part, but I'm not sure if it's actually a good idea. The greedy part of me wants to keep it, though. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 19:23
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The reason I did it was (mainly) because entries in the first 1/10 contest were elgible for the 5th contest, but if anyone has an argument against it, I'll listen... [ Tuesday, January 02, 2007 19:24: Message edited by: BainIhrno ] -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 19:48
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This is a good rule. Intermediate contest scenarios have always been eligible for the annual contests. It's also a way to keep numbers up. You may want to change the wording in Rule 1 from towns to zones or town scripts to avoid the ambiguity of the discussion we've just had. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 07:01
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I think all of the rules seem fair. The only thing I may (selfishly) want to change is the deadline. The end of March is okay, but ideally I'd want a little longer... If I'm on my own here, please ignore me :P -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? *Name by Slarty Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 08:46
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For the judging, if there are entries from both BoE and BoA, which I doubt, I think I will require judges to have both. It's a short contest, and there's not too high of a demand for judges. I'd be surprised if there are BoE entries, though, because as far as I'm aware, I'm the only person working on a BoE scenario, and it's definitely not going to be a 1/10 scenario. -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 08:56
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I've been tempted for a while to go retro and make a BoE scenario, but I don't think that I'll be doing it for this contest. :P The rules look good. A definite yes on the scenarios being eligible for the 9th Contest (dear god, the 9th contest), since that's the way it's always been. How about a deadline of the end of the day on April 1st, Bain-time? It's a Sunday, and probably some people will want the weekend to work. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 09:39
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I'm working on a BoE scenario (or will be continuing, now that I have BoE up and running again!!) that is 10 towns but I use 4 outdoor sections, even though the total amount of outdoors could probably be fit into one. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 16:54
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Allowing eligibility for the 9th contest gets a big thumbs up from me, as does Kelandon's Sunday-deadline idea. Which Sunday it is doesn't matter much to me, the first Sunday of April or last Sunday of March seem like the two most likely candidates. New question: Should entries be released to the public, or should that wait until after judging? I ask because I remember hearing about people doing this for previous contests, and was wondering if this was standard practice or just designers being secretive. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Thursday, January 4 2007 15:28
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I'm most likely going to go with the 4/1 deadline, since I have the week after off from school, and I'll definitely be judging this contest. The amount of time allowed for judging will depend on the number of submissions, I guess. If anyone's not clear on judging, it is done by ranking every scenario from best to worst, it's added up, lowest score wins. Judging criteria is up to the judge (i.e. there's no special way a judge is supposed to judge), with the exception that you can't favor BoE over BoA or vice versa. There's only one round of judging. As for Laz's question: Submissions aren't released until after the contest by the coordinator, but designers may choose to release their scenario before the results are announced on their own. TM did this with NTH in the Shark contest. [ Thursday, January 04, 2007 15:30: Message edited by: BainIhrno ] -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |