Stuck in Exodus

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AuthorTopic: Stuck in Exodus
Tyran
Warrior
Member # 7000
 written Tuesday, January 2 2007 10:54 Profile Homepage #50
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Another bug, assuming nobody already mentioned it: in the Temple of Sothana, I got a message like "Error: Town Wandering Monster Out of Range". Something like that, anyway.
A problem similar to this (but outdoors, I think) was reported in beta.
Actually, it appeared just as I was leaving the Temple.

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"It's sort of like Star Wars. Except Jeff didn't make Erika shoot first in Avernum 3, nor did he introduce annoying computer-animated aliens." —Arancaytar
The Spiderweb Chat Room
Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things.
Posts: 178 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Tuesday, January 2 2007 11:31 Profile Homepage #51
quote:
Originally written by Tyran:

Actually, it appeared just as I was leaving the Temple.
Not you, then. :P

Someone reported it in a reproduceable way around the Lava Ocean outdoors. Yours I could never reproduce.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Ishad Nha
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
 written Tuesday, January 2 2007 17:27 Profile #52
Orb of Flight can be made unsellable by giving it an item value of 0.

In town 26, Fekhthen, there is a slight bug: the dummy script in the library calls a town state of 0 instead of 14.

As for Capture Soul and Simulacrum, you can provide the names of the creatures stored within, if you trim the strings down a bit. I was able to do it easily enough at home. Failing which you can provide the number of the creature type. Then you can provide the relevant listings from the Scenario Data File

"Creature types for Exodus:
Creature 0: Null
Creature 1: Merchant
Creature 2: Merchant
Creature 3: Beggar
Creature 4: Guard
Creature 5: Dark Captain
&&&

Creature 251: Dark slith priest
Creature 252: Blue slith priest
Creature 253: Red slith priest
Creature 254: Slith priest ghost
Creature 255: Placeholder "

Knowing the number the player can look up the creature type in the list provided.

[ Tuesday, January 02, 2007 17:34: Message edited by: Ishad Nha ]
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Tuesday, January 2 2007 17:56 Profile Homepage #53
quote:
Originally written by Ishad Nha:

As for Capture Soul and Simulacrum, you can provide the names of the creatures stored within, if you trim the strings down a bit. I was able to do it easily enough at home.
By butchering the script, I can only imagine. Send me what you did, and I'll look at it, but I don't immediately see how this is possible.

[ Tuesday, January 02, 2007 17:58: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Ephesos
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
 written Tuesday, January 2 2007 19:06 Profile Homepage #54
Personally, I never bothered with Capture Soul/Simulacrum... I just used the standard BoA Simulacrum. And a whole lot of Arcane Summon/Radiant Shield/Mass Haste combo-riffic goodness.

(BtW, Kel deserves recognition for making summoning helpful by adding Grizzlies. It's been a while since I've had summons actually kill one of my enemies.)

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Tuesday, January 2 2007 21:27 Profile Homepage #55
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Ishad Nha:

As for Capture Soul and Simulacrum, you can provide the names of the creatures stored within, if you trim the strings down a bit. I was able to do it easily enough at home.
By butchering the script, I can only imagine. Send me what you did, and I'll look at it, but I don't immediately see how this is possible.
Manually constructing a really big lookup table is one solution that springs to mind. :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 00:52 Profile Homepage #56
I did. It didn't work. :P

The string limit (750 strings per script) is the problem. The list has to be done in the scenario script, and using 512 monster names gets pretty near the limit already. I don't think it's possible to cut the entire rest of the scenario script down to just over 200 strings, but my mind remains open, I suppose.

[ Wednesday, January 03, 2007 00:53: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 03:00 Profile Homepage #57
Are there actually 512 distinct monster types that can appear in the scenario? You can afford to ignore all the ones that aren't placed anywhere and aren't summonable.

P.S.: What is it with Jeff Vogel and his love affair with arbitrary limits?

[ Wednesday, January 03, 2007 03:02: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 08:38 Profile Homepage #58
quote:
Originally written by Cryptozoology:

Are there actually 512 distinct monster types that can appear in the scenario?
Pretty near, yeah.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Ishad Nha
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 15:25 Profile #59
As for the monsters I see only 256 types listed in the C1 thru C4 tabs of the scenario editor. Thus we have an explanation for Jeff’s apparently arbitrary limits.
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 16:17 Profile Homepage #60
quote:
Originally written by Ishad Nha:

As for the monsters I see only 256 types listed in the C1 thru C4 tabs of the scenario editor. Thus we have an explanation for Jeff’s apparently arbitrary limits.
I actually meant the 750-strings-per-script limit.

Besides, just because a limit is a power of 2, doesn't mean it's not arbitrary.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 21:30 Profile Homepage #61
256. Right.

Eh. I see how you did it. Among other things, you botched states 13 and 15 so that they no longer really display properly. Your list of available spells ends with a comma, not a period. However, it gives me an idea for something that might work and save a whole bunch of strings.

You also destroyed state 14, so that the engine no longer recognizes anything but numbers for the special spells, which I suppose is okay, unless anyone objects.

There are a couple of other things here that you do that I think will work in saving some strings.

What you've done in state 19 runs contrary to what I've set up, so I'm not going to include it, but what you've done in state 96 is interesting: you've made it possible to cast blessing special spells on a joined NPC. This hardly seems necessary, but if there's demand for it, I'll include it.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 22:19 Profile Homepage #62
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

What you've done in state 19 runs contrary to what I've set up, so I'm not going to include it, but what you've done in state 96 is interesting: you've made it possible to cast blessing special spells on a joined NPC. This hardly seems necessary, but if there's demand for it, I'll include it.
Um, that was already possible in the version of Exodus I've got. You select "Cancel" while attempting to cast the special spell and if an NPC is in your party it asks if you want to cast it on them. It's poorly documented, but it's there. Did you code it in and then forget about it?

[ Wednesday, January 03, 2007 22:28: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 22:24 Profile Homepage #63
quote:
Originally written by Cryptozoology:

Did you code it in and then forget about it?
Apparently. :P

In my defense, I coded everything having to do with special spells about eighteen months ago.

quote:
It's poorly documented
Another thing to check and fix if it looks like it needs it.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Wednesday, January 3 2007 23:05 Profile Homepage #64
New, hilarious bug found. When returning to Avernoss Camp near the end of the scenario and finding it deserted, the entire party is killed off. Looks like an erase_char loop gone horribly wrong. Should be easy enough to fix.

[ Wednesday, January 03, 2007 23:06: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Ishad Nha
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
 written Thursday, January 4 2007 02:08 Profile #65
What the game really needs is a version of print_named_str which works upon creature type number not Character ID.

Exodus text has about 712 strings, only 38 short of the limit. To include 256 strings listing creature type names will require some real deliberate pruning. The figure of 712 comes from my adding 39 numbered strings to Exodus.txt and finding the game reporting too many strings. Whereas adding 38 strings made no difference.

A lot of my suggested changes were very deliberate pruning. Then you also find things rearranged to suit my personal tastes.
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00
Ishad Nha
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
 written Friday, January 5 2007 00:22 Profile #66
Make that 711 strings, 39 extra strings is ok but adding 40 will lead to an error message from the game.

Some of the spell information is contradictory, starting with Bind Foe, while most is ok. Generally the information given in the spell casting states 21 thru 38 and 41 thru 45 agrees with the top lines, “add_dialog_str(1…”, in the information screens. However the information given in string 1 may not always agree with that found in string 3.

add_dialog_str(0,"DIVINE WARRIOR",0);
add_dialog_str(1,"PS 22, 20 SP, 4 + 4 * skill + B/5 levels of Divinely Touched; L2 4 + 4 * skill + B/5 levels of Magic Resistant; L3 1 + 2 * skill + B/10 levels of Invulnerable",0);
…
append_string("Minimum Priest Spells to cast: 22. Energy cost: 25.");
if (get_flag(293,i) > 0) {
append_string(" You know this spell at level ");
append_number(get_flag(293,i));
append_string(".");
}
else
append_string(" You do not know this spell.");
get_buffer_text(dlgstr);
add_dialog_str(3,dlgstr,0);

Safe Travel: information in state 49 should be checked against the spell casting state 44.
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Friday, January 5 2007 03:00 Profile Homepage #67
Now that you mention it, quite a few of the special spells' energy costs are inconsistent between the readme, the online help and the actual mechanics; I assume they were rebalanced during betatesting.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Imban
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
 written Saturday, January 13 2007 21:46 Profile #68
Hey Kelandon, you reaaaally should release Exodus v1.01. I'm definitely going to play through it once I get back into a BoA mood, and I'd like Exodus to, well, work right. :P
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Saturday, January 13 2007 22:15 Profile Homepage #69
The plan at the moment is to devote a couple of hours tomorrow and most of the next day to it, and whatever gets done gets done. Whatever doesn't, well, doesn't. If I have something worth releasing as an update at that point, I'll release it. If not, well, the scenario works right now unless you do crazy things, so it doesn't really matter.

One thing that I'm going to do is remove the melee slowdown in strategic places and eliminate a couple of the dungeons that really have no impact on the plot. The melee slowdown is going to be gone from the Berekh Hive and the Slime Pit, and Slime Pit L2 is gone entirely. Kathaneth is gone.

Also, several of the special spells (the ones that didn't really work anyway) are gone entirely, and a few get moved around a bit. I may add one or two if I have time.

A few of the criticisms I've seen I reject as completely without basis in reality ("It's too hard," "The Berekh Hive/The Land of the Dead is pointless," "The Berekh Hive is too graphic"), and I won't do anything about them. But I'm going to make a serious effort to address everything that I can that seems quick and legitimate.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00

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